Fog,
I interpreted the tone and context of this statement to mean that we didn't know we were not "civilian smart" and thus the reason for the economic pressures in the aviation industry. Sorry if that was misinterpreted.

My "not so military friendly" experience(s) was not with Gemini - in fact, due to a misspent youth, 1300 hrs of my TT is in rotary wing, so I do not meet your mins AFAIK - so I didn't apply.

I am sorry for the industry that some companies are scared by my having a 73 type? I wanted to get my ATP, and with the MGIB, getting a type/ATP through Higher Power is only slightly more expensive than just getting an ATP; if it opened a door or two why is that bad? (It didn't, see "misspent youth" above). More importantly for me, it gave me an opportunity to sample the 121 world (my sim partner was a 7 year RJ CA) and see if I would like the flying. I did, and it shows that I can fly a "modern" airplane in a 121 environment, which my 1700 hrs of E-2C time does not. I think it made me a more rounded package... if a company thinks they have so little to offer career wise that I would run to SWA at the first opportunity, then I do not want to work there.

I am glad that Gemini is a veteran friendly shop, and that you enjoy working there. The insinuation that Gemini was not was unintentional.

If I had an employment offer from Gemini, World, Omni, or Cathay, FedEx, UPS, etc. I would have weighed the opportunity, goods and bads and made a choice based on the best match for my life and goals, as I'm sure most anyone would. For me, that ended up with a consulting job that pays better than any starting airline job and does not include spending 12 hours in a cockpit that smells like a$$ and trying to find food on limited per-diem in ANC.

Sorry for instigating a food-fight, I was initially trying to clear up some mis-information on the board about C360, and increase knowledge here. Now that I know they are a sub-standard ACMI company and not worthy of consideration, I'll go back to my cave. It's dark but it's a happy place.

Spongebob, out.

 

Fogrunner,


People who know the least always argue the most.

 

Well why don't you enlighten us. It is rather difficult to glean any substantial information from you when your average post is one monosyllabic sentence.
That is the problem with 360 they put very little information out. All we hear from some, is how impressive Cargo 360 is. "they told me this", "they told me that".
I am not arguing with anyone just pointing out that your employment package is sub par and is a drag on the other ACMI pilot groups who are working hard to improve their working conditions and pay. You can justify paying for your security, drug and background checks, training bond, and your lack of per diem all you want and the list goes on and on. Still does not make it an "impressive" organization.

 

I'm curious why Cargo360 hasn't returned any correspondence with APC.com? I mean, just about any job worth having is listed on their pages, and good (albiet basic) information on pay, work rules, etc.. Where is the Cargo 360 data?

I still think this is going to be one of those companies that relies on the over exuberance of many pilots to fly big metal, and while in the short run this will work out fine, in the long run, the free market of labor and supply and demand will show them otherwise. Omni is a great example... they've simply burned too many bridges and now they'll hire just about anyone into a DC-10, since they really can't get quality applicants anyway.

 

Fog....

How many times does someone have to tell you that Cargo 360 does not make you pay for the training bond. You sign a piece of paper. No check. Ok? In conjunction, the company is only 9 months old. How about cutting a little slack and let the pilot group work on getting a better over all compensation package without getting into a heinous fight with management. I am sure southwest and Fedex were not the most wonderful places to work the first couple of years.

 

Fog

As for me, I'll never understand why it matters about what kind of work rules "other" companies have. I just want my situation at my organization to be the best it can for me, my family, and my fellow employees. I wish you the best at Gemini. To quote SpongeBob; Now that I know they are a sub-standard ACMI company and not worthy of consideration, I'll go back to my cave. It's dark but it's a happy place. Move over SpongeBob....


SabreDriver, out.

 

I know that this is addressed to someone else, but I have to chime in..

Look up the economic term "Wage Pressure"

Its simple supply and demand.. and the old term "lowering the bar" explains why it matters. Race to the bottom... where does it stop? There is a place now offering $65/hr for A320 CP's.. that's fully 1/3 what UAL was paying before their BK.. do you really think it's good for our profession for us not to care about what other places pay? and just as important, what are their work rules?

Go get yourself a copy of the old ALPA book called "Flying the Line".. you've got a lot to learn my friend.

 

I haven't read where Fog is criticizing anyone for applying or working at Cargo 360. I see where he criticizes some of the benefits, and he is absolutely right. I know on paper it looks like Cargo 360 Pilots may earn more, but If a Gemini guy works 20 days a month like a Cargo 360 guy is working, I bet the Gemini guy is earning more.

Fog's point of view is worth reading.

 

Do you guy's ever read anything but your own drivel? As previously posted I'm averaging 15-16 days a month with 70-80 hrs pay to boot. As far as enlightning you two, I'll wait until after we buy you and your my FO.

Cheers

 

And the critical point to make on all of this is that Gemini is operating under a concessionary contract negotiated on the heal of a BK filing.. what's 360's excuse? This is the elephant in the livingroom..