Band of Blue
01-14-2009 | 05:12 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
So.......... US Air is the worst paying major flying medium sized equipment. We know that, and we know all about US Air.
Saying "it's better than only the worst" can't be said with much pride now can it?
Not exactly raising the bar are you?
Some of you ex Mesa guys need to get over your past and start aiming higher. This degredation of our profession at the "major" level is why many pilots at the majors don't care much for the B6 guys.
Trouble is, some of you guys have no problem with B6 being the Mesa of the majors. The folks upstairs must love you.
Are you so brainwashed that you believe you're only of value to an airline if you come very cheap?
Why are you trying to defend such pay rates?
Think your job is relatively safer because of the low pay you keep trying to stretch out?
let me clue you in on something here. Your apprenticeship at the regionals is over. Start being a pilot.
AL
Saying "it's better than only the worst" can't be said with much pride now can it?
Not exactly raising the bar are you?
Some of you ex Mesa guys need to get over your past and start aiming higher. This degredation of our profession at the "major" level is why many pilots at the majors don't care much for the B6 guys.
Trouble is, some of you guys have no problem with B6 being the Mesa of the majors. The folks upstairs must love you.
Are you so brainwashed that you believe you're only of value to an airline if you come very cheap?
Why are you trying to defend such pay rates?
Think your job is relatively safer because of the low pay you keep trying to stretch out?
let me clue you in on something here. Your apprenticeship at the regionals is over. Start being a pilot.
AL
Last edited by alvrb211; 01-14-2009 at 01:53 PM.
01-14-2009 | 06:06 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
My friend, your dismay is understandable.
However, you must remember, unlike the other majors, B6 are happy to hire pilots with no turbine PIC and no college education. In other words, guys who were on F.O. pay at the regionals. They go to B6 with low expectations. They then help to promote Mesa-ism, a management's dream!
They just don't get it. They continue to hurt only themselves and defend their decision to do so.
AL
Last edited by alvrb211; 01-14-2009 at 07:08 AM.
01-14-2009 | 06:24 AM
#113
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 535
Likes: 1
[quote=Phlying Phallus;537458]This was clarified in my original post. Through no fault of their own, most of these carriers have been dealt a (temporary) blow through bankruptcy.
I see that theposter had to include such premium airline legacies such as Frontier, AirTran, Spirit,....
------
Please forgive our union brother/ sister for labeling you as a second class airline. I like to think of premium legacy airline as Pan Am, TWA, …I’ll stop there.
as for the rest of it....
Please define temporary. 5 years? 10 years? Your pay cuts have lasted longer then JBLU has been alive. Don’t you think they’ll adjust to stay in the “middle of the pack” when you guys get your actual contract wages?
As for the UAL contract. Give me a call when you/ they actually get that back. I’ll be retired, living in a van down by the river eating my Top Ramen.
And yes, the E-190 pay rates are disgusting
I see that theposter had to include such premium airline legacies such as Frontier, AirTran, Spirit,....
------
Please forgive our union brother/ sister for labeling you as a second class airline. I like to think of premium legacy airline as Pan Am, TWA, …I’ll stop there.
as for the rest of it....
Please define temporary. 5 years? 10 years? Your pay cuts have lasted longer then JBLU has been alive. Don’t you think they’ll adjust to stay in the “middle of the pack” when you guys get your actual contract wages?
As for the UAL contract. Give me a call when you/ they actually get that back. I’ll be retired, living in a van down by the river eating my Top Ramen.
And yes, the E-190 pay rates are disgusting
01-14-2009 | 09:26 AM
#115
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 749
Likes: 4
From: Blue fifi flogger
My friend, your dismay is understandable.
However, you must remember, unlike the other majors, B6 are happy to hire pilots with no turbine PIC and no college education. In other words, guys who were on F.O. pay at the regionals. They go to B6 with low expectations. They then help to promote Mesa-ism, a management's dream!
They just don't get it. They continue to hurt only themselves and defend their decision to do so.
AL
However, you must remember, unlike the other majors, B6 are happy to hire pilots with no turbine PIC and no college education. In other words, guys who were on F.O. pay at the regionals. They go to B6 with low expectations. They then help to promote Mesa-ism, a management's dream!
They just don't get it. They continue to hurt only themselves and defend their decision to do so.
AL
I think I know 2 B6 pilots without college degrees, and neither have zero college. We did hire some guys without turbine PIC, but guess where they came from? Places like Comair and Eagle, where they'd never freakin see the left seat. Ask how many of our USAir furloughs had 0 TPIC before we hired them here as well.
Fact is, there are pilots at EVERY legacy without college degrees, excepting possibly DL and Fedex. A small percentage, but there nonetheless. And CO, DL, NW, UA, etc have all hired guys with zero TPIC (and I mean recently, not just pre-9/11) thanks to family ties, gender, who they knew, or in a couple cases just plain luck. The vast majority of us are working to improve the conditions here, but we will always circle the wagons when you paint us with the wrong brush.
01-14-2009 | 01:22 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
AL, you're a little off base here.
I think I know 2 B6 pilots without college degrees, and neither have zero college. We did hire some guys without turbine PIC, but guess where they came from? Places like Comair and Eagle, where they'd never freakin see the left seat. Ask how many of our USAir furloughs had 0 TPIC before we hired them here as well.
Fact is, there are pilots at EVERY legacy without college degrees, excepting possibly DL and Fedex. A small percentage, but there nonetheless. And CO, DL, NW, UA, etc have all hired guys with zero TPIC (and I mean recently, not just pre-9/11) thanks to family ties, gender, who they knew, or in a couple cases just plain luck. The vast majority of us are working to improve the conditions here, but we will always circle the wagons when you paint us with the wrong brush.
I think I know 2 B6 pilots without college degrees, and neither have zero college. We did hire some guys without turbine PIC, but guess where they came from? Places like Comair and Eagle, where they'd never freakin see the left seat. Ask how many of our USAir furloughs had 0 TPIC before we hired them here as well.
Fact is, there are pilots at EVERY legacy without college degrees, excepting possibly DL and Fedex. A small percentage, but there nonetheless. And CO, DL, NW, UA, etc have all hired guys with zero TPIC (and I mean recently, not just pre-9/11) thanks to family ties, gender, who they knew, or in a couple cases just plain luck. The vast majority of us are working to improve the conditions here, but we will always circle the wagons when you paint us with the wrong brush.
Some of the posts on this site would suggest that some are happy to accept relatively low pay only to enjoy a nicey nicey culture.
Trouble is, the best culture in the world alone would not transmit well onto a pay slip.
No matter how much of a downer your paycheck gives you, run along, don't make waves, be a good little pilot, and keep a smile on your face as you go.
Great culture.................for the "shareholders".
AL
Last edited by alvrb211; 01-14-2009 at 03:32 PM.
01-14-2009 | 03:58 PM
#117
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 749
Likes: 4
From: Blue fifi flogger
I have no problem with individuals without college degrees or turbine PIC. Just those with low expectations who justify sub standard compensation.
Some of the posts on this site would suggest that some are happy to accept relatively low pay only to enjoy a nicey nicey culture.
AL
Some of the posts on this site would suggest that some are happy to accept relatively low pay only to enjoy a nicey nicey culture.
AL
01-14-2009 | 04:08 PM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Hey if we had a union we could possibly avoid subsidizing jb if we had the option to strike, correct? The option to strike is better than what we have now. With our current contract we can't do anything but sit here like wounded ducks.
01-15-2009 | 02:21 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Don't kick all of us. I am one of the jb pilots that is totally embarrassed by the low standards we have set. I have talked to many of our guys and I think our union vote will pass. I can also tell you that I agree with most of what you say, although maybe you could do it in a slightly better tone. We all know what a joke we look like to the rest of the industry and many of us will bail once the industry turns around, probably not for awhile. From the day I started working here I have been disappointed time and again with this company and our group of pilots.
Who do I blame? I sure as heck don't blame management solely, I blame myself and our group of pilots. Let's get something straight, we can blame and point fingers all we want at management, but the pilots are just as responsible for our poor pay, benefits and quality of life. We have let this fester for years and it has finally caught up to us. If our union does not pass it will be just another reason to not make this a place to work for the rest of my flying career. We seriously need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves, what are we doing? Time to dig down deep and make the right choice for our company and to better our industry.
Who do I blame? I sure as heck don't blame management solely, I blame myself and our group of pilots. Let's get something straight, we can blame and point fingers all we want at management, but the pilots are just as responsible for our poor pay, benefits and quality of life. We have let this fester for years and it has finally caught up to us. If our union does not pass it will be just another reason to not make this a place to work for the rest of my flying career. We seriously need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves, what are we doing? Time to dig down deep and make the right choice for our company and to better our industry.
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