ewrbasedpilot

I know it does, and it says a LOT about the folks who do it. They screw someone else out of a slot, and then walk away from it. So who does it end up hurting? CAL's bottom line, which affects my pay in the long run....so in essence they are screwing all the other pilots too. If their was a consequence for their action, I think they'd think twice about it. Maybe CAL keeps the entry pay and benefits low because of pilots who do this. Why invest a lot of money in someone who isn't really serious about staying? ALL the newhires KNOW what the pay and benefits are when they start training. If they don't like them, then for God's sake, don't accept the job. But I have to believe those who leave knew darn good and well BEFOREHAND that they were going to leave, since they have to let the airline they are going to know they are coming to work. This type of deception doesn't say much for the pilots who do it, does it?

A320fumes

I've given telephone recommendations to SWA for several of my F/O's since last fall's furloughs. CAL lost over 10% of new-hires (2005-2008) even before furloughs last year. F/O pay is terrible, the contract is far below status quo, and the pilot group suffers from a deep inferiority complex because Lorenzo lingers in our Chief Pilot Offices. Unfortunately, there's really no place to leave CAL for right now. If I had less than 500 beneath me at CAL, I'd leave for Delta in a minute. I've got high hopes for a better contract, but truth be known, no CAL pilot hired before 2005 has ever had a contract on par with other major airlines, and thus the bar is set too low. CAL is a great company, but if you are looking to enjoy the respect, unity and lifestyle that is in line with other majors, this ain't the place for you.

ewrbasedpilot

[QUOTE=A320fumes;541487]......... CAL lost over 10% of new-hires (2005-2008) even before furloughs last year.............[/QUOTE

I have a hard time believing that statistic. Do you really think over 100 pilots left CAL? I don't. If that WAS the case, you could bet that NO pilot with a B737 type would get a job interview with CAL, and NO pilot that had had an interview with SWA would be hired. Maybe that's what CAL needs to do now...........you interview with SWA, then you don't get an interview with CAL. I guess CAL would get blamed for people spending $8000+ for a type and not getting a job............. Maybe that would save us some money that we could use for MORE leverage in our negotiations. Just a thought...........

dojetdriver

Yep, it says they are not willing to put up with the substandard pay/benefits.

Thats been going on for YEARS. Don't expect it to change, especially where you're at. It ALSO frees up a slot when they leave.

What effects your pay in the long run is what you voted on. In a roundabout way, the reason these guys leave and affect your pay is ALSO because of what YOU voted on.

Again, the pay and benefits are low because thats what YOU voted on. Protect your pay, who cares about the junior people, right?

True

Again, cost of doing business. Happens all the time in other industries.

Doesn't say much about the way they treat a new hire either, does it ?

And before you make some ASSumption, I haven't applied to CAL. Don't have an interest. And I know I'm not the only one.

ewrbasedpilot

So why do they apply for a job when they KNOW what the pay and benefits are? Seems they aren't doing ANYONE a favor, are they?

A slot is only freed up when a new bid comes out with openings, NOT when someone leaves training. Contrary to what you may think, it's a lot more complex than just bringing in a replacement.

The pay and benefits are what our union negotiated for us, and then voted on by the WHOLE pilot group. Sure, we can demand $500 an hour, but seriously, do think we'll get it? Once again this a much more complex issue than "demand and you shall receive". Again, do you think none of the newhires has any idea about the pay and benefits when they get hired?????

You keep saying "that's the cost of doing business", but does that make it right? All it does is makes it harder for the next guys to get on.......so who's it hurting? (Also, at CAL if a newhire that you recommend leaves during or after training, your recommedations will no longer will be accepted, so in essence it hurts your credibility as a sponsor too.)

I'm glad you haven't applied to CAL. There's thousands of pilots who DO want to come here. Please let them have a shot at one of our slots. One thing I can't stand is hearing a newhire complain about flying a new plane on longhaul routes, having never sat a day of reserve in his life, and how rough his life is having paid his "dues" for a whopping three years....all before he's 26 years old.

dojetdriver

Career, progression, it's been going on for years. You do know that, right?

Yep, I know that. But when airlines are hiring, they factor in a lot of things. Staffing needs, as well as attrition. Contrary to what you might think.

Thats usually the most simple argument. But you still had to vote, right?

How's it going to make it harder. The airline still has to hire to staff.

Thats between the "sponsor" and the guy that left.

No problem

Then maybe you should bid off the equipment if it bothers you so much. Get into something that has a different age demographic.

ewrbasedpilot

Oh come on.....you don't "career progress" in two months of training...........

Once again, they don't just fill a slot as soon as someone leaves. It's a lot more complex than that.

More often than not, the sponsor is "blindsided" when their buddy is hired and leaves. I've heard a few say they'll never sponsor someone again since it was embarrassing for them to say the least.

I'm happy in my equipment. ALL equipment has whiners who think they deserve to be B777 captains at 24 years old. Age demographic? How so? Do you work for the airlines? Our equipment, whether the B737 or B777, has pilots of ALL age groups, so your statement doesn't hold much weight.

Eric Stratton

ewrbasedpilot,

Why do you seem to get so worked up about people leaving CAL? It wasn't the place for them and they found a better place that makes them happier. I know some people who left to go to a better place. (for them) Had they known they would end up there they never would have gone to CAL and endured the pay cut along with the other things that 1st year brings. Of course they couldn't see into the future and took the best option that was available at the time. (which was CAL)

Of those 10% that left I bet that those who replaced them will be happier than the 10% who left had they stayed. It's a win win for both.

Eric

yoke jerker

the video game industry is responsible along with the KY company.

250 or point 65

k, a little more back on topic.

For those who were furloughed....do you accrue longevity on furlough. Meaning if you were furloughed a day after getting done with IOE and were furloughed for 12 months, would you come back to 2nd year pay?