JetPiedmont

What about a SOS over outsourcing or some other big issue?

That would be legal, wouldn't it?

AU96

Sidenote...what makes you think a military dude would work for peanuts? Last I checked my pay stub I was making close to 100K as a 12 year Major who didn't even take the bonus... All of us "Joe Bag-o-donuts" from the military take a significant pay cut for 4-5 years to go straight to the majors. My point is, the best pay anyone can get starting out (SWA, Fed Ex) is still a pay cut for us these days. Most of us definitely wouldn't make it worse on ourselves by taking ridiculously low paying FO jobs; generally we go straight to the highest paying option available. You make it sound like we're finally leaving the barracks from living on base on E-4 pay our whole lives and we'll take anything. I'm guessing you're not military and don't have any friends who are...

tsquare

I know you are kidding about the legal part, but that would take a leader, and I am afraid Prater ain't that.

Moose

"

????? Reading comprehension must not have been your strong point in school. I have not met many 12-year majors that are so clueless! You should get out more and see what your comrades, including myself are working for these days! Did you know there are some large organizations outside of the active duty called the Reserves and Guard? What do you think many of these guard and reserve pilots do for a civilian job?

AU96

Moose, all I was saying was that your post made it sound to me like a military guy entering this business is part of a problem, because we're willing to work for peanuts. I was not trying to brag about my salary; I frequently meet civilians who have no idea what military officers are paid and assume that any civilian job is a huge step up in compensation, and sometimes this assumption annoys me. That is probably why my post had a sarcastic tone, and for that I apologize. Furthermore, I was not advocating that military guys deserve somehow to go to higher paying jobs (don't know where you got that). So, perhaps I did misunderstand your post...maybe you were just pointing out the demographic of new hires, and I shouldn't have taken the post the way I did, and I probably should have left out the last couple of sentences because I obviously misjudged your background, and I apologize for that as well. That all being said...

High-five! Nice job putting me in my place with the disrespectful comments and insults regarding my background and lack of experience in the airline industry. You're the man. I'll leave this thread to you brotha...

Moose

Thanks! Maybe you should not fly off the handle so quickly in the future. Good luck with SWA!

AU96

Point taken on flying off the handle, fair enough. Sorry to hijack the thread fellas...

Boogie Nights

I hate to say it but this would not be a problem in Europe. I am by no means a socialist, but in Europe the unions would shut it down, close ports, block roads, close capitals to make their voice heard. I agree it won't happen here, at least no time soon. If pay gets low enough and expirience leaves the carreer field, some emergency aircraft might end up in Queens rather than safely on the Hudson, because of poor piloting decisions. Then the flying public might wake up, and have our backs. Till then I am debating how long I can afford to continue to do this. I can make in 4 months in the AF Res, in what it takes a year at my current company. I am not greedy I just want to see an upside or reward for years of hard work. I want to be rewarded for the expirience I bring to the table.

Sorry to Winge
Viva La France ( We'd get taxed to death!)
Boogie

Eck4Life

To get back on topic, I think Riddler brings up a great idea. All of us agree that a national seniority list would give management less of an advantage on us and sounds great up until when we have to actually do it. This seems to be a great compromise. You wouldn't be flying right seat with some 5 yr wonder pilot SOB from ABC airlines, but he still would be making his due amount. You could still get the cherry trips and schedules that you have been dreaming of for the past 20 years and he wouldn't be left out in the cold and therefore, neither would you if something were to go amiss.

Of course management is going to buck this until their dying breath. It would give us too many options. They know the seniority system allows them to dole out SEVERE concessions. I mean, in what office in America could a boss announce a 40% pay cut, increase in work hours, and completely axe the pension and expect the worker bees to show up the next day? There would be problems like some said above, but at least it is a step in the right direction. The problems that would exist would be between the union and the company and not between ourselves, which is a huge difference. We all know management loves to divide and conquer. What I mean is, I don't care if the guy flying to my right is making the same amount of money as me as long as I can get the schedule that I want and am being compensated accordingly. Good on him and my profession. I wish all 121 pilots made CA wages.

sigep_nm

I suggest reading "The art of war" i did and there are many parallels in our "supposed struggle:"