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ALPA failed the TWA pilots. Miserably and arbitrarily...

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APM145

Didnt the TWA pilots vote to waive their scope so as to allow for the purchase of TWA before it was liquidated? There by giving into the lesser os two evils... Getting stapled with a number rather than liquidating without anything.

I can imagine there are pilots who didnt vote, didnt stay informed, and choose to slam their fellow pilots for taking some sort of action rather than no action at all.

Romulus

In english please. What does this mean? It looks like the judge agreed. So what happens now?

WorldTraveler

OK, Romulus, Speaking of writing in english, I'll bite. What does divim nauta mean? Don't get all intellectual on us here, OK?

Anyway, back to the original premise of the thread: ALPA must transform its' policies. They are using the playbook of the last couple generations which doesn't really work anymore.

Here's the deal: We are not in a recession, we are in a DEPRESSION! And not just any old depression but what some are calling a transformational depression. Key word transformational. Many of you have read the books like "The World is Flat", etc. Well, to get to that happy place where the world is all egalitarian requires many of the old policies and institutions to be swept away. The economy is going to be transformed into something that looks a lot different.

Many companies including the airlines are strictly in survival mode right now. ALPA is probably included in this group; just surviving. The winners coming out of this depression will be 1) those that are first just able to survive 2) those that figure out what the future is going to look like and 3) those that adapt most quickly to what the future is going to be.

whiskey72

Just out of curiosity, does anyone ever start to think that this association called "ALPA" is all of you? I often see it referred to as if ALPA is a white knight that everone expects to ride in and save the day. ALPA is every single pilot out there that is a part of that union. ALPA is only as strong as the union member is encompasses. A good example would be having a group of Generals but no soldiers to fight. How effective is that? ALPA as a name can do very little, ALPA as every pilot fighting for the same cause can do much. The old terms strenght in numbers might ring a bell.

I find it funny that right now everyone is fighting for their own survival in little groups. Everyone has their own contract and we applaud a group when that group achieves a better contract. We all need the same contract...I know, I know...wishful thinking, but .......big BUT, every time someone gains, it's an individual gain, it doesn nothing but guarantee that another group will try to do better. We don't need an individual group to do better, we need the entire group of all pilots to do better as a whole. Seems to me this will never be, again because our individual gains at our individual airlines are MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. We say we are fighting to better the lives of ALPA pilots, and all pilots indirectly, but we are only fighting for ourselves.

Can you imagine what strenght unity would bring to the table if everyone fought the same war? We want a raise, we get a raise...it's hard to argue when every collective pilot puts their foot.

ALPA will never ride in and save the day. You are ALPA, you are sitting there on the couch hoping you will save yourself and you don't even see it.

Whiskey

all4114all

Then what is the purpose for belonging to ALPA?

Everyone is fighting amongst each other because ALPA encourages that environment by not having any type of tenure acknowledgment for pilots.

ALPA provides zero leadership, they love to take credit but refuse to admit any faults.

There is a reason why the two most successful airlines and pilot careers are at American and Southwest, they are non ALPA. These airlines have a line for pilots that they wait in that no one can cut in front of.

The only ones that bang the ALPA drum on this board are reps that get paid to do so.

Time for a change and change takes intelligence, vision and courage. It should originate from the top of the chain, if it does not the bottom will revolt. The ALPA "leaders" were given ample time to correct this.

APM145

FYI, ALPA Reps are VOLUNTEERS. Only durring some annual meeting or certain conditions will a trip be dropped and pay protected by us, the pilots (ALPA).

You make is seem like ALPA Reps dont fly the line.. Well, they do, all day long. These are men and women who volunteer their time on top of their job and do it to help you and me. When was the last time you volunteered to help?

sailingfun

[quote=all4114all;549657]Then what is the purpose for belonging to ALPA?

Everyone is fighting amongst each other because ALPA encourages that environment by not having any type of tenure acknowledgment for pilots.

ALPA provides zero leadership, they love to take credit but refuse to admit any faults.

There is a reason why the two most successful airlines and pilot careers are at American and Southwest, they are non ALPA. These airlines have a line for pilots that they wait in that no one can cut in front of.

The only ones that bang the ALPA drum on this board are reps that get paid to do so.

I am often amazed at how many pilots do bash ALPA with no idea of the things that have accomplished even in the last few years. Much of it is quietly done behind the scenes in D.C. I am also amazed at how many pilots point at other labor unions as a model for doing business without any reference to the Railway Labor Act.
We work under the Railway Labor Act. Most other unions don't. The railway labor act was conceived in the robber baron days as a way to
castrate railway unions. They attempted a national strike to try and get equal wages and other work rules. They were met with federal troops and there were lots of deaths. Out of the strike came the arbitration act. Later it was amended into the railway labor act and airlines were added to the act in the thirties. From a union act working under the RLA is like trying to fight in a boxing match with your hands handcuffed behind your back.

syd111

APM, feel free to post those numbers from our "volunteers" show us how they volunteer their time. Most I have seen do not spend much time on the line at all. I am not talking the ones on committees but like you said the reps. I do not consider them voulteers at all at some of the airlines.

I also always like the folks here that talk like we are a national union, then go back and read the posts from national brothers that hope this one or that one go out of business so their own interest will be met. We need to be represented I just wish it was by a different organization.

By the way if they drop trips then they drop trips just don't keep pushing the volunteer line down our throats.

Jake Wheeler

This goes for any union, not just ALPA. My largest challenge as a union rep is to convince my union brothers and sisters of what you wrote.