Airline Pilot Central Forums - Handwriting on wall for Virgin America?

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Originally Posted by Flyin1500 (Post 550154)

I think those were repo flights bro

Ouch! :eek:

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Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 549267)

And those issues at UAL affect the industry just as much if not more than any LCC ever did. Their contract degradation has lowered the bar that was once the top of the industry to less than those at some LCCs. QOL is worse at UAL than many of the start-ups. They're setting a precedent of allowing their once strong contract to be decimated, and that is sure to hinder future contract negotiations of all the airlines. So to say that they aren't part of the cause of the erosion of the industry is not a valid statement. By your rationale, people who work for an LCC are akin to scabs. Crossing a picket line is a completely different issue. Are you on strike right now? No. I'm not saying you should feel sympathy for anyone. I'm saying that the fact that someone chooses to fly for a company that doesn't have as high a pay scale as your company doesn't make them a bad person and they don't deserve to be berated either directly or indirectly.
What about SWA? They were/are an LCC. They most definitely began as an LCC. Look at them now. They're where "everyone" wants to go. They're at or near the top of the industry. Who's to say that VA doesn't turn out to be another SWA in 10-15 years? Unlikely maybe, but who are you to judge?

Instead of pointing a finger at companies that don't meet with your approval, maybe you should just sit quietly there in your 57 and just be happy that you've got yours.

I believe the lower bar was initially set by JetBlue, another LCC. Once their rates were set, management was able to use Bankruptcy to lower 320 rates at UA, NW, etc down to JB rates. VA came in and further lowered the bar by not improving rates. Guess it's the old "chicken before the egg" argument. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 549396)

You're brilliant... (yes, that's sarcasm). And why do you think they don't need to take 30% pay cuts?

I'd say because the pay is already low, and no one has more then 2-3 years of longevity. The cost structure has stayed low, but as people accrue longenvity it will go up. I'd also say that advancement opportunities at VA are probably as likely as advancement at UA. Airlines that are bleeding $$$ don't grow. Perhaps the more appropriate question is "Why don't you think they need to take 30% paycuts YET?"

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Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr (Post 549977)

What do you mean by "you are even getting the JS?" Are we not all able to ride on the JS no matter who we work for? You make it sound like VA isn't worthy of a JS. I don't think you would appreciate that comment if you worked for VA.

Not true. Has to be approved by each MEC of each airline you have JS on. And no, I'm not a fan of giving the JS to carriers that are non-union and have contributed to the lowering of pay scales, however the counter argument is there may be former ALPA pilots working there.

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Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 550011)

Who are you referring to? I don't work for VA, and never said I did. You need to get your $h1t straight before you make assumptions like that. It will make you appear more credible.

As far as the rest of it, I'm done arguing with you about this since it has become rediculous. You're entitled to your own opinion, even if you are wrong.

I stand corrected. FWIW neither you, me, nor anyone else is "entitled" to an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fly4hire (Post 550201)

I stand corrected. FWIW neither you, me, nor anyone else is "entitled" to an opinion.

In the USA you are definitely entitled to expressing your opinions. It's a First Amendment rule.

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Originally Posted by Jake Wheeler (Post 550205)

In the USA you are definitely entitled to expressing your opinions. It's a First Amendment rule.

Read up on your bill of rights. It is not a "first amendment rule". The "RIGHT" that you have under the first amendment is only that congress will not abridge your "right". Private industry/people/etc. can forbid it all that they please. That's what moderators are for;)

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Originally Posted by dn_wisconsin (Post 549191)

Good friend of mine works for Virgin. She flew the SFO-LAX round trip last night......not a soul on board both ways.

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Originally Posted by Flyin1500 (Post 550154)

I think those were repo flights bro

Why would they repo a flight both ways? Seems an awful waste of fuel, time, and expense. I guess however they want to bleed money is OK with me......

VA is the only airline I know of ...that when you upgrade to capt. you are re-set to year 1 pay....this is lowering the bar, and hurts ALL professional aviators. for this alone VA shall cease to exist.

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Originally Posted by Jake Wheeler (Post 550205)

In the USA you are definitely entitled to expressing your opinions. It's a First Amendment rule.

You are confusing freedom of speech. Introducing that we somehow have a "right" or "entitlement" to an opinion is a red herring that is irrelevant to solving the problem and adds nothing to the process. It's false logic. Having a "right" to an opinion does not make that opinion right - or wrong. Asserting the existence of the right is a failure to provide any justification for the opinion -it's a cheap way of forfeiting an argument without conceding defeat.