Redeye,

It seems that the problem must lie in my writing style. You seem to have missed the point that my referenced quotes regarding "airline captains earning 300K and Tickets costing $3000" were hyothetical in nature and not intended to be represented as fact. I am sorry will attempt to dumb down my English and make any jokes or ironic statements as clear as possible for you.

Though you enjoy regarding my career as disregardful any court of law would accept my testimony as an expert witness. In addition though I have not achieved the same success as yourself and do not posses decades of of experience as yourself I have been active in the industry for over 20 years now and come complete with a four year degree in aviation and business (however worthless it may be) and a resume that reflects 6300 hours of hard earned flight time over many employers as I painstakingly climbed the ladder. Most of what I post on regards those just starting out and it is my continuing position that I am an expert on what it takes to get there being one who didn't.

I will state again to you and all those reading that I clearly do have major airline envy and so do many other pilots on this forum. I don't see the crime in that. Even guys at legacy carriers are having FedEx and UPS envy now. Enjoy your good fortune. Five years ago everyone made fun of you cargo guys and this is your time in the sun. Bravo !!

In closing, thank you for your "from the hip" comments on my posts. You are becoming my new best friend.

SkyHigh

 

Now there's something that's gotta make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, Redeye.

 

Yeah.........can't you just feel the love Bro?

 

The part about this is that whether it is age 60, 65, or whatever it is still age discrimination. And this debate will go on forever. We all knew before we got into this business that we had to retire at age 60. That is no surprise. Now that it is getting close for some they realize that they haven't saved enough money to retire. So they want to keep working in the 121 environment. Which for them is real easy since they are making decent money ($150,000 plus), flying nice equipement, with nice schedules, days off, and so forth.
For me I would like to see the age 60 rule stay in place. It probably won't, but the last thing I want to be doing is dragging my bag through the airport when I'm 63. I would much rather be hanging out with my wife and friends and playing golf or any other thing I'm into at that time in my life.
I think 757driver has the right idea about making the age 65 start with the new 121 hires not those of us here now.

 

Personally, having to retire at age 60 or 65, doesn't matter.

Given the economic situation of most Americans, we will have to work until age 68 anyway. With that being said, if I do get on with the airlines, I could transition either to an instructor, get a MBA along the way and use that when I stop flying or enter another field of aviation. Besides, my ex-wife(we're getting back together) has two Master's degrees. She is currently teaching in the classroom and looks to get to the administrative level in about 3-5 years. It takes two incomes these days.

atp

 

I knew it would be "60 and out" when I signed up. 30 years on the civilian side and 6 in the military were enough. The only one you can count on for retirement is YOU. SAVE, SAVE, SAVE! I found a good, conservative financial advisor and stuck with him. Even if my pension gets turned over to the PBGC[which appears likely], I'll be able to live a reasonably comfortable life. Always live a little below your means and you'll do OK.

 

Watts............What about the United and USAir folks? Do you know what they were contractually were suppose to make and what they are gonna make in retirement.

As for you comment of making decent money...........USAir has 20 year First officers (all were former Capts) making well under 100K....$85000 is closer to it. Under the PBGC retirement rules......the max a pilot retiring at 60 will make from his pension is $27,000 and change. The PBCG says that if a pilot retires at 60 that is 5 years early and penalizes him.......if he continues to work to 65 he will top out at around $44,000.still well short of what his pension was suppose to be.

If you look ask around many of us have started over 2 or 3 or even 4 times. Most companies require 5-7 years before you are vested (get any retirement).
It is hard to save significant amounts in the first few years because of the low pay scales.

I agree everyone should start planning and saving on their own for retirement ......while a few people spend and live outside their means, most of us do not.

Lets let a few of the Reired Pilots who are recieving PBGC checks chime in here.. Hey Fireman are you listening??

 

Redeye, I think what happened to those guys and gals retirements is criminal. Something should be done to stop these CEO's from terminating pensions and then walking away with millions of dollars for themselves.
I have spoken with a few of the USAir pilots and they have told me that almost everyone there has invested their money or started their own business because they had seen this kind of thing happen before (in the early 80's), so they wanted to be prepared. By all means I definietly hate what has happened to them because it could happen to all of us ( losing their retirement). I just think that as joel payne said we need to save, save, save. We all show know now not to count on any pension from an airline. If you get one that is just a great bonus to the money that you have been saving all along.

Perhaps easier said then done.

Also ALPA did a survey as you remember and the majority of the pilots wanted to keep the age 60 rule in effect.

 

Every time I see someone telling an older guy he's selfish for wanting to have the option to stay in the seat past 60, it brings to mind images of pots and kettles. "Get out of that seat so I can move up" isn't exactly the most inspirational team spirit rallying cry I've ever heard, but whatever. For the record, if I personally have to stay in the seat past 60, I'll be putting a gun in my mouth, largely based on the frequency of conversations with topics such as this.

 

I guess my biggest disappointment was that I assumed[HA, HA!] that the funds for retirement were deferred wages. If they are not going to offer a retirement package, then they should have offered higher wages and let the individual be responsible for the outcome. As it is coming to pass, the retirement is going away and you're STILL responsible for the outcome. Maybe we all need SERP's[bankruptcy proof retirement]. Sure it smarts, but what about the poor gate agents, mechanics, F/A's, etc? My heart goes out to them. The love of flying is a "terrible beauty".