CaptainNameless

I am a 9 year captain at ExpressJet, so I don’t have an interested opinion on the details of what’s going on at DAL-ALPA vs. its regionals in regard to scope, but I do have some general comments about ideas for a better future for most of us. We all have a viewpoint as regards scope, general loss of career quality, and the future of the profession. It does not look great.

We need to roll back the clock on career path expectation. We need to somehow reintegrate large small jet flying (yes this is a real term being used to describe 70-100 seat jets) back under mainline scope. I fly for CAL (under contract). To my knowledge CAL is the only remaining legacy to still own flying of any jets bigger than small regional jets (anything larger than 59 seats in CAL scope language). Will they stand fast? Will they compromise to get the contract “gains” they think they can get? I don’t know. I do know it would be a further step in the wrong direction if they did give relief. I do know leadership from mainline pilot groups everywhere is the only way to stop the slide of more and more careers into the gutter. That’s where we will continue to head as long as these companies can continue to move their passengers on aircraft flown by people who have 1/2 the career expectation they once did, because 1/2 a career has been rubber-stamped “OK” by the mainline pilots who could have fought to demand more. “OK” because it’s someone else’s career, not mine. “OK” because some senior guys think squeezing the junior-domestic-narrowbody/RJ pilot corps will leave more in the pot for the senior-international-widebody pilot corps (who swings the big bats at the negotiation table?). And then RJ guys like me just sit and rot for years because 1/2 or 1/3 of a career is better than none.

If we could overcome the standard mainline greed/absolute seniority protection/selfishness and the regional DOH idea insanity, some real big-picture improvements could be implemented. What I mean is, regardless of what the name of the company on my paycheck is, the fact is I have been flying CAL passengers for over 9 years. Is that worth NOTHING? Many would answer “yes” because I am not a CAL pilot, but really, I am. I am just a SEVERELY DISCOUNTED CAL pilot, (you’re welcome, CAL management). The same is true throughout the industry that we have shaped over the past 20 years. Is this really good for anyone?

My point is, erasing the lines between mainline and regional seniority lists could be made possible and equitable. Getting management to accept it is another battle, because they sure as hell don’t want integrated seniority lists. Heck, they want to keep us chopped up into as many pieces as possible. The key concept to accept would be RATIO INTEGRATION. Not DOH. You get so many years/days of mainline seniority for your many years/days of contract service to that carrier. You negotiate it. MECs talk about it. You recapture the flying that has been surrendered. You unsurrender it. 10-1 or 8-1 or 5-1 or whatever. Fence off the few guys who want to be fenced. Whatever. Then we can start to kill off the whole concept of "regional" pilots. Only then will ALPA have really "taken back" anything at all.

Or we can just continue with the current career progression disaster.

Superpilot92

There are tons of people emailing the union about this. This has spurred more emails to the MEC than anything in recent history from what i am hearing. The pressure must be kept up and the fire must remain hot. Keep letting your voices be heard on this. SCOPE is one of the biggest issues we as a pilot group will ever have to deal with. Keep the emails going to the reps and dont let this become a cold issue.

newarkblows

I would take this sentence, write it on a sticky note, and STAPLE it to the forehead of whoever thought this was a good deal for your pilot group

sailingfun

Most Delta pilots were outraged when they first heard of this including me. The vast majority however after understanding the issues and the resolution have changed their mind. As a friend said. I don't like it and it still ****es me off but I understand what they did and would have done the same thing.

Again the company at some point in the near future would have had access to these seats regardless of the outcome of arbitration. Had we lost in arbitration they would have been able to access more seats forever. The company had a reasonable intepretation of the contract as we also did. Arbitration would have been a crap shoot. The agreement gives us our numbers going forward. Not a single word is changed in the scope section of the contract. Those I have talked to who are screaming about it have for the most part not read the material available and don't even understand the nature of the dispute in the first place.

Fly4hire

Therein lies one of the best reasons for an in-house union. The attorneys we have that are on Herndon's payrolls are professional negotiators, but are beholden to National, and frequently represent their position in local MEC contract negotiations.

Bucking Bar

Fly4Hire:

It has often been said - "ALPA Attorneys practice politics, not law"

As long as our Representatives endorse the idea that scope is something to be used for bargaining, the response to scope violations is bargaining. Management now expects that ALPA will not fight scope violations, but they'll have to bargain something.

We first have to fix our internal politics. We have to stop the cancer of belief that one pilot's work can subsidize another pilot's pay.

With every block hour that we outsource our bargaining power decreases, setting us up for a long term negative trend, or lower highs and lower lows.

RAHPilot5

I agree with some of your post. The fact that you are mentioning a staple is unfair. I was directly affected by the Shuttle America integration but I did not complain about 50+ pilots going directly in front of me because a lot of them lost senioirty. I saw the bigger picture and I wasn't thinking of me me me. What about AA inergrating TWA. Was that fair?

My personal opinion is EVERYONE needs to take it on the chin and do the right thing and intergrate something besides staple. I am hopeful and happy that some of yall are trying to make this profession right again so lets do it at every angle. Staple does nothing. Of course I'm just wishing.

Carry on

Carl Spackler

Every word of this post needs to be stapled to our reps foreheads.

Carl

hiredgun

It's not fair to the Midwest pilots that Republic is ummm...I'll excersise restraint here and use the arbitrator's terminology--"codesharing" the vast majority of Midwest Airlines flying and replacing good paying pilot jobs with lowball paying jobs that pay less than the guy plowing the snow off my driveway. Tell the 13 year Midwest captain who was making $130,000/year and went straight to the unemployment line about "fair". It's not fair I lost 2% seniority at Delta in the merger with NWA and the FNWA guys will find things that weren't fair to them...whatever...life's not fair. You take gratuitous liberty to preach the "kumbayah-brotherhood we're-all-in-this-together line while Midwest guys are selling all their shi1t, pulling their kids out of college, and enrolling in Wisconsin's free health insurance plan. I would submit that to some extent we aren't in this together. Senior guys screw junior guys at the negotiating table with B scale, MECs and national unions govern and negotiate with their own agendas, regional guys fly mainline routes for a fraction of the pay, mainline guys negotiate scope on regional jets and so and so on. My votes on various contracts and side-letters aren't predicated on what's good for my fellow brethren first but what''s good for me and my family..,period. A lot of pilots wax self-righteous about "the brotherhood", but if they were really honest, most would admit they vote what's expedient and beneficial to them, not the captains above them or the junior guys in the last class hired. Maybe you really believe what you're saying here, it just a little too convenient to invoke the "fairness" principle when Republic guys are flying Midwest pilots' seats and benefitting off the back of guys that fought hard to elevate their pay and benefits from the industry cellar. It is what it is.

flyover

You guys are looking for a fix to Scope, maybe we should look at the problem. The root of the problem is ALPA's organization. I feel that there is a severe conflict of interest when the same national union represents majors as well as regionals. I worked for a regional under ALPA for 7 plus years before coming to NWA last year. If I'm in the same union why did I take such a pay and seniority sacrifice to move into the majors? My uncle who has been an electrical union member for years works for various different companies throughout the country for his union yet his compensation and seniority continue to go up. The problem is that our union ALPA is just a greedy business and is not looking out properly for the entire member groups' longevity and total compensation. There is no real fix for this but here are some ideas.
1. ALPA makes a rule that if a major is represented by ALPA then the regional that provides feed for that same major cannot be represented by ALPA.
2. ALPA needs to split the regional groups into its own union separate by all means from the major more than they are now.
3. The ultimate fix for scope would be that ALPA is responsible for compensating its members nationwide and we work for ALPA but fly for the airline. Is this so crazy? We all would wear ALPA uniforms and we would have one major seniority list. All 121 Airlines would have to use ALPA pilots by federal law. We could have a nationwide pay scale based on equipment and longevity. This would be safer, and all pilots would have a natural career progression, we could handle our own training, and we would have the numbers to demand the compensation we all deserve. No more worries about a merger or scope. Once an ALPA pilot, always and ALPA pilot. This is how my uncle's 'powerful' electrical union works and he is very happy with his union.

I have seen both sides of ALPA from the regionals and now the majors, and it appears to me that we are butting heads against are own brothers and sisters and that is what management loves, shy of no union at all.

I do not have the proper solution but I see the problem behind the scope issue and it is ALPA representing both regionals and majors. If we at the majors keep giving up scope then the regional ALPA members will soon out number the major ALPA members.

I vote for my idea number 3 but this make so much sense so ALPA and the airlines will not even consider it.

All this being said, lets fix the scope issue now before management wants to order 1000 large small jets and the major consist of just a few wide bodies and a handful of pilots.