Bucking Bar

That is wrong. Where do you get this stuff? Really. I'd like to know.

Here is a link to a brief overview of the law:

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/airlinemg.pdf

Here is a link to the entire law:

http://earmarks.omb.gov/resources/20...tation_126.pdf

Start on page 2243

In effect, since Compass and Delta are both represented by ALPA, they would be required to use the union's own internal mechanisms for SLI. Nothing in ALPA's internal policy, or Allegheny Mohawk provisions 3 or 13, prohibit an agreement, or a staple. Especially in the case of post US Air ALPA, mergers get done on pre-merger agreements.

An illustration of things going right was NWA / DAL, where the MEC and Committees hammered out a pre-nup that agreed on the process, if not the list. An illustration of things going wrong was ASA & Comair, where the regional MEC & Committees refused to agree to a pre-nup and the Delta MEC quashed the merger.

There is absolutely nothing illegal or improper with a pre-nup and such an agreement is absolutely required to get Compass to the first base.

Having a single MEC entity makes this very clean and the bilateral flow makes a staple the most logical order, since that is the seniority pilots have now. A staple of Compass is the most objectively fair and equitable arrangement.

For the Comairs and Mesabas that wanted something better than a staple, a good example set with Compass would show everyone else how it is done.

Vikz09

Yes they do have a flow but if you read both flows it is a very different flow from Compass. The compass flow is designed by the old NWA mainline and in essence puts Compass pilots ahead of Mesaba pilots based on preference of who goes first. Compass flow takes priorty of Mesaba. I didn't write the contract but it specifically states such in flow agreements. The mesaba guys also have there own MEC/LEC and as such are not represented by the same LEC/MEC's. AGAIN Compass is paying dues to the same councils as mainline that is not the case at Mesaba. In fact the flowdown is a huge difference. Do you realize that only 13 mainline guys can flow down to Mesaba? (that's the number that has flowed to delta already. The flow down to mesaba can only flow down the number that have flowen up to date) At compass there is no such limit. if Delta needed to flow down the delta pilots could have all the postions 320 no restrictions.

I am only looking out for myself. NO I will be in the first group of pilots eligable to flow thru when Delta begins to hire again. I will be in the first or second class. I am eligable in December/January of this year and since I don't believe Delta will hire between now and then i will be in the next one or two classes at Delta. So am i looking out only for myself NO it really doesn't matter to me but like i have said before if the mainline guys wanted to try and regain in the 76 seat market there is not a easier airline or group of employees to add. All will eventually be on the Delta list via the flow thru and not many are demanding the old DOH incorporation. The pilots already have the same ALPA group representation. All things point to this being the easiest attempt.. much easier then trying to incorporate a mesaba or comair since they have pilots who have been on property for 10 plus years who have no interest in being put at the bottom of a list. in fact many of those pilots i would assume would prefer to stay at there airline because it would be too much of a pay hit and QOL hit to move to the bottom of a seniorty list. Compass pilots have only 2 years on there current contract, therefore only working under a contract for two years means most of us have not had the opportunity to get to good of a lifestyle to resist the change. QOL would change yes but pay issues No.

Vikz09

I did take Mesaba into account. Re read my post. Mesaba can only flow a max of 9 per month and that is after Compass hits there max of 20 per month. This is in the flow thru contract of both mesaba's agreement with NWA and Compass's flow thru agreement with NWA. It clearly gives priorty first to the Compass group. No one at compass wrote that into the contract to superseed mesaba it was NWA mainline negioators who did that since they are our union representation and not Mesaba's representation (mesaba has there own LEC/MEC's) The unfortunate thing for the mesaba group is that Delta is not currently hiring. Many more Mesaba guys would be going ahead of the Compass guys since the Compass guys are still completing there 30 month requirement and the mesaba guys have already completed those 30 months. Timing once again will effect the flow numbers of both airlines.

Bucking Bar

True .... flow through agreements do not work. Airline management has a terrible record for keeping promises to their own employees, much less those who are not even "on the property yet."

I'd like to see Delta extend an offer down to give seniority numbers to the Compass and Mesaba pilots.

Eric Stratton

I saw that you mentioned the mesaba guys but aren't you pushing for a staple job? This essentially cuts out the mesaba pilots who were going to flow through and I didn't see anything like lets give them a number so we don't screw them over too. Don't you think it would be wrong to leave out the pilots who would flow over?

I saw that 9 mesaba pilot can flow each month. Is there a cap to how many can flow up a year or is it just 9 a month for a total of 108 for the year?

There really isn't that much of a difference between you and mesaba other than the flow and representation.

Eric Stratton

Flows work... they just cost money and you have to be willing to fight for them.

JungleBus

Mainline unions do fight for them, about half the time. I'll let you guess which direction the flow is going when they're fighting to keep it.

Vikz09

I am not saying a staple is the answer. Just saying that the synergies have never been better amongst a group... with the same union representation (however it seems that really bothers moak who wants to rid himself of this compass pimple). Some things the MEC has done of late make me wonder what the true intentions are of Delta.

My postion on the staple was that everyone at Compass should be at Delta in 4 years based on the flow and of course hiring. If the Delta pilots wanted to gain the planes and the pilots will be coming there via the flow sooner then later, why not give the Compass pilots a seniorty number. This would go a long way into bringing back the flying that the mainline guys want back. This is unlike any other flow thru in that the fact the entire company of Compass pilots could have flown up to mainline in only 4 years. There is not another example of any airine having that kind of turn over in such a short time frame. After the merger the Compass pilots were completely left without any seniorty intergration or having any say about our destiny. We are controlled by the same union that seems to resent our very exsistance... this is starting to be a issue of concern amongst the Compass pilots. Taxation without representation.

Eric Stratton

I hate to say it but I think you're right about Moak. Sad thing is I don't think he is truly unique in that thought process. I heard one of the nwa guys made a comment like "lets be honest do we want to fly 76 seaters or 777's". Like one really has anything to do with the other.

The problem I see is that you have 2 flows which make it more of a sticky situation. It would take you guys roughly 4 years to get everyone over but Mesaba could actually have more guys go per year if they don't have a restriction other than the 9 a month. (I don't know if they do)

I'm not sure if you were talking about flows in the past or just current ones but I guy I knew flowed to continental in about 2 years back in the 90's. That one was quick but then they got so big it made it virtually worthless for the junior guys because it eliminated Continental as an airline they could go to. That one had a life of guys having #'s at Cal to a ratio then pref interview to nothing. What a waste!

During the merger process what were you hoping to have happen with compass? Let me just say that I think delta and nwa completely dropped the ball with those negotiations.

acl65pilot

I understand the premise of being at one code regional carrier and not wanting a flow at your dream job, but it is good for the gander.
We need to start protecting those that pay the dues not the ones who do not. If you want to work for that carrier then you need to plan accordingly early in your career. It is kind of like other associations and professions. It adds barriers to entry.