FoxHunter

Five for my two days, from NWA, DL, CO, Spirit, FDX. Only died once.

Short Bus Drive

"Died" twice. Over G'd once a day!!!!
My class was Expressjet,furloughed MidEx, and me Spirit/furloughed UAL.

DYNASTY HVY

It's my understanding that one gains experience by doing .
And as far as the pay factor goes that's another thread all unto itself.

Fred

shfo

I've flown with Bruce. It's a real blast and you get a video to show your friends.

yawdamp

My impression of NASTAR's upset recovery trainer was luke warm. The same bit of training could have been accomplished in a non motion simulator. I was the last to go and as a result was able to play with the g-load sim. After, spoke with the engineer, "What is the one thing that you see done incorrectly?" He states that in a nose up, rapidly decreasing speed, in a large catagory aircraft, you should roll 90 degrees and use rudder. Apparently most would just pitch down 'nose over' the airplane. After, I recall seeing a video during training of a test flight whereby the recovery of an 'approaching stall' was to roll the airplane on it's side and rudder the airplane to yaw about the verticle axis of the airplane, to allow the nose to 'slice through the horizon'. Anyone see this video? Just 'food for thought'.

HercDriver130

I mean... isnt that what EVERYONE is taught in nose high unusual attitudes... I was both in civ and mil training. ROLL to the nearest horizon... let the nose drop TOO the horizon.....roll into level flight.... hum not rocket science.

USMCFLYR

OUCH!......I can't imagine how uncomfortable it would be to just nose it over from a nose high attitude! Even our emergency dive recovery is an unloaded roll to less than 90 degs of bank and then a loaded roll to continue the recovery.
I agree with the previous post that mentioned AOA gauges in the aircraft and precise flying. AOA is the key factor in flying - including OCF recovery. Another friend of mine mentioned that they have indexers in the type of corporate jet that he flies but most pilots don't use them.

USMCFLYR

MILPILOT17

MAX, RELAX & ROLL!

forgot to bid

For reference to the discussion, selected excerpts from the Boeing manual on stalling a 757/767 and using the rudders.

Note, the manual says this about approach to stall and stall recovery: The following discussion and maneuvers are for an approach to a stall as opposed to a fully developed stall. An approach to a stall is a controlled flight maneuver; a stall is an out-of-control, but recoverable, condition. I included the full stall recovery below as well.

Approach to Stall: (different procedure then full stall)
Approach to stalls are entered with thrust set appropriate for an airspeed decrease of 1 knot per second. During the initial stages of a stall, local airflow separation results in initial buffet giving natural warning of an approach to stall. A stall warning is considered to be any warning readily identifiable by the pilot, either artificial (stick shaker) or initial buffet. Recovery from an approach to stall is initiated at the earliest recognizable stall warning, initial buffet or stick shaker.

Lateral and Directional Control
Lateral control is maintained with ailerons. Rudder control should not be used because it causes yaw and the resultant roll is undesirable.

Approach to Stall Recovery with Ground Contact Not a Factor
At the first indication of stall (buffet or stick shaker) smoothly apply maximum thrust, smoothly decrease the pitch attitude to approximately 5° above the horizon and level the wings. As the engines accelerate, counteract the nose up pitch tendency with positive forward control column pressure and nose down trim. (At altitudes above 20,000 feet, pitch attitudes of less than 5° may be necessary to achieve acceptable acceleration.) Accelerate to maneuvering speed and stop the rate of descent. Correct back to the
target altitude.

Approach to Stall Recovery with Ground Contact a Factor
At the first indication of stall (buffet or stick-shaker) smoothly advance the thrust levers to maximum thrust and adjust the pitch attitude as necessary to avoid the ground. Simultaneously level the wings. Control pitch as smoothly as possible. As the engines accelerate the airplane nose will pitch up. To assist in pitch control, add more nose down trim as the thrust increases. Avoid abrupt control inputs that may induce a secondary stall. Use intermittent stick shaker as the upper limit for pitch attitude for recovery when ground contact is a factor.

Full Stall Recovery
To recover from a stall, angle of attack must be reduced below the stalling angle. Nose down pitch control must be applied and maintained until the wings are unstalled. Application of forward control column (as much as full forward may be required) and the use of some nose-down stabilizer trim should provide sufficient elevator control to produce a nose-down pitch rate. It may be difficult to know how much stabilizer trim to use, and care must be taken to avoid using too much trim. Pilots should not fly the airplane using stabilizer trim, and should stop trimming nose down when they feel the g force on the airplane lessen or the required elevator force lessen.

Under certain conditions, on airplanes with underwing-mounted engines, it may be necessary to reduce thrust in order to prevent the angle of attack from continuing to increase. Once the wing is unstalled, upset recovery actions may be taken and thrust reapplied as necessary.

If normal pitch control inputs do not stop an increasing pitch rate in a nose high situation, rolling the airplane to a bank angle that starts the nose down may be effective. Bank angles of about 45°, up to a maximum of 60°, could be needed. Normal roll controls - up to full deflection of ailerons and spoilers - may be used.

Unloading the wing by maintaining continuous nose-down elevator pressure
keeps the wing angle of attack as low as possible, making the normal roll controls as effective as possible.

Finally, if normal pitch control then roll control is ineffective, careful rudder input in the direction of the desired roll may be required to initiate a rolling maneuver recovery.

WARNING: Only a small amount of rudder is needed. Too much rudder applied too quickly or held too long may result in loss of lateral and directional control or structural failure.

The following excerpts were cut and pasted from the Boeing 757/767 manual. Forgot to Bid is not responsible for providing accurate cut and paste information and the informaiton provided should only be used as reference. Forgot to Bid is not responsible for ensuring you know the correct stall recovery technique with ground contact a or not a factor, nor is he responsible for the reason you got into the stall or why you messed up your PBS bid or didn't bid at all. He is also not responsible for the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Not is he responsible for most of the pictures of Miss California but he may be responsible for the compromising pictures of Megan Fox.

effsharp

Well that is quite a lengthy procedure for spin recovery. The truth about spinning in a 172, no action is required other than just letting go of the controls. Unless you practice spin technique in the airplane you PIC, then little is to be learned.