I smell a merger brewing with AA/ US Airways
09-09-2009, 06:38 PM
#81
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Seniority deal? Here's how it SHOULD go down. Staple the LCC boys BELOW the AA furloughees.
09-09-2009, 06:45 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by cactusmike
I don't think LCC is an attractive merger partner by any means, but I am hurt that you all would leave us standing in a corner at the big dance, particularly when you know we will put out.
Here's another kicker in any discussion of the new US Airways - Doug Parker's ego. There were pretty intense discussions between Parker and Tilton this past spring and they were done in ultimately by Tilton not willing to turn the reigns over to Doogie. Parker wants to be the Big Guy and he will sell us all out to get what he thinks he is entitled to. Same deal with CO and UAL, CEO egos are involved. Someone is going to have to be the beeotch in these deals and take one for the team or else get paid beacoup bucks to go away.
Labor issues will not drag on because you have the example of DAL/NWA and the Nic award as the seniority list that has been set. AA (or whoever) has their widebodies protected and everything else gets ratioed in. AA guts the hubs and we all wind up on furlough and have to get on with our lives.
Ce la Vie
Here's another kicker in any discussion of the new US Airways - Doug Parker's ego. There were pretty intense discussions between Parker and Tilton this past spring and they were done in ultimately by Tilton not willing to turn the reigns over to Doogie. Parker wants to be the Big Guy and he will sell us all out to get what he thinks he is entitled to. Same deal with CO and UAL, CEO egos are involved. Someone is going to have to be the beeotch in these deals and take one for the team or else get paid beacoup bucks to go away.
Labor issues will not drag on because you have the example of DAL/NWA and the Nic award as the seniority list that has been set. AA (or whoever) has their widebodies protected and everything else gets ratioed in. AA guts the hubs and we all wind up on furlough and have to get on with our lives.
Ce la Vie
AA
P.S Thats gotta suck, to put out, and no one wants it
09-09-2009, 07:07 PM
#83
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Unless it is just parts.
09-10-2009, 01:49 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Unless it is just parts.
When you don't think like a pilot, even a AMR/LCC mrger can in fact make sense, especially when you think about three-way deals that get all the pieces in the right hands. For isntance, plug in Delta into your calculations. LCC just traded with us in a way that helps them in DCA, and makes them small enough in LGA to pass regulatory review in LGA in case of a merger with AMR.
Now look at New York. AMR isn't exactly growing, but CAL/DAL/JBLU are setting up strong positions. DAL has a well-known terminal problem in JFK. Some rumors even exist that we are in discussions for AMR's terminal. Some scoff at this, of course, but the rumor also has AMR getting our new terminal in BOS. That, to me, seems a lot more plausible: everyone sets up more dominant positions in different turfs. AMR strengthens its' hand in BOS, LGA, and PHL. In my mind, the PHL market is begging to get some adult supervision, and SWA won't provide the international lift. I don't see why AMR couldn't serve the JFK TATL traffic with a BA codeshare, and have a decent domestic/int'l hub at PHL, to replace the mess that exists there right now.
My point isn't that I know the answers, but simply that we need to be more original in our thinking. Something has to give in this industry. Judging by the terminal swap at LGA, and by the AAI/CAL swap at EWR and LGA, something significant is happening. Airlines are now deciding to look at ways of setting up dominant positions in certain markets, in return for strengthening a competitor elsewhere.
So I think it's very naive to think Arpey and Parker are simply looking at existing networks, and wondering if they will fit, or if labor will play along: they're going to axe, cut, grind, trade, swap, haggle, deal, or whatever it takes to get the right properties in the right hands. I doubt fleet commonality keeps them up at night, and I doubt even pieces like PHX are too difficult to trade in a three-way deal. Take SWA, for example... maybe they could pull out of CLT and BOS, and reduce a little in PHL, in order to meet the increased PHX schedule when AMR/LCC pulls down their flying, to shift it more towards, you know, CLT, BOS, and PHL...
The good news: it probably will take the same number of pilots. I don't see the system shrinking much further, and you can't defer retirements forever.
Last edited by Sink r8; 09-10-2009 at 02:03 AM.
09-10-2009, 03:09 AM
#85
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Sink r8
...and most of us fail to consider "parts" because we cringe at the implications for any one pilot group. Since we're stuck without a NSL, and thus married to our individual airlines, our most important wish is for our group to stay intact. We often can't get our minds around the concept that this is a giant monopoly game potentially getting underway. And the traders aren't interested in trading places with each other: they want to trade properties. What's the point of everyone holding incomplete sets, when everyone could be putting up hotels over fewer, neatly organized properties?
When you don't think like a pilot, even a AMR/LCC mrger can in fact make sense, especially when you think about three-way deals that get all the pieces in the right hands. For isntance, plug in Delta into your calculations. LCC just traded with us in a way that helps them in DCA, and makes them small enough in LGA to pass regulatory review in LGA in case of a merger with AMR.
Now look at New York. AMR isn't exactly growing, but CAL/DAL/JBLU are setting up strong positions. DAL has a well-known terminal problem in JFK. Some rumors even exist that we are in discussions for AMR's terminal. Some scoff at this, of course, but the rumor also has AMR getting our new terminal in BOS. That, to me, seems a lot more plausible: everyone sets up more dominant positions in different turfs. AMR strengthens its' hand in BOS, LGA, and PHL. In my mind, the PHL market is begging to get some adult supervision, and SWA won't provide the international lift. I don't see why AMR couldn't serve the JFK TATL traffic with a BA codeshare, and have a decent domestic/int'l hub at PHL, to replace the mess that exists there right now.
My point isn't that I know the answers, but simply that we need to be more original in our thinking. Something has to give in this industry. Judging by the terminal swap at LGA, and by the AAI/CAL swap at EWR and LGA, something significant is happening. Airlines are now deciding to look at ways of setting up dominant positions in certain markets, in return for strengthening a competitor elsewhere.
So I think it's very naive to think Arpey and Parker are simply looking at existing networks, and wondering if they will fit, or if labor will play along: they're going to axe, cut, grind, trade, swap, haggle, deal, or whatever it takes to get the right properties in the right hands. I doubt fleet commonality keeps them up at night, and I doubt even pieces like PHX are too difficult to trade in a three-way deal. Take SWA, for example... maybe they could pull out of CLT and BOS, and reduce a little in PHL, in order to meet the increased PHX schedule when AMR/LCC pulls down their flying, to shift it more towards, you know, CLT, BOS, and PHL...
The good news: it probably will take the same number of pilots. I don't see the system shrinking much further, and you can't defer retirements forever.
When you don't think like a pilot, even a AMR/LCC mrger can in fact make sense, especially when you think about three-way deals that get all the pieces in the right hands. For isntance, plug in Delta into your calculations. LCC just traded with us in a way that helps them in DCA, and makes them small enough in LGA to pass regulatory review in LGA in case of a merger with AMR.
Now look at New York. AMR isn't exactly growing, but CAL/DAL/JBLU are setting up strong positions. DAL has a well-known terminal problem in JFK. Some rumors even exist that we are in discussions for AMR's terminal. Some scoff at this, of course, but the rumor also has AMR getting our new terminal in BOS. That, to me, seems a lot more plausible: everyone sets up more dominant positions in different turfs. AMR strengthens its' hand in BOS, LGA, and PHL. In my mind, the PHL market is begging to get some adult supervision, and SWA won't provide the international lift. I don't see why AMR couldn't serve the JFK TATL traffic with a BA codeshare, and have a decent domestic/int'l hub at PHL, to replace the mess that exists there right now.
My point isn't that I know the answers, but simply that we need to be more original in our thinking. Something has to give in this industry. Judging by the terminal swap at LGA, and by the AAI/CAL swap at EWR and LGA, something significant is happening. Airlines are now deciding to look at ways of setting up dominant positions in certain markets, in return for strengthening a competitor elsewhere.
So I think it's very naive to think Arpey and Parker are simply looking at existing networks, and wondering if they will fit, or if labor will play along: they're going to axe, cut, grind, trade, swap, haggle, deal, or whatever it takes to get the right properties in the right hands. I doubt fleet commonality keeps them up at night, and I doubt even pieces like PHX are too difficult to trade in a three-way deal. Take SWA, for example... maybe they could pull out of CLT and BOS, and reduce a little in PHL, in order to meet the increased PHX schedule when AMR/LCC pulls down their flying, to shift it more towards, you know, CLT, BOS, and PHL...
The good news: it probably will take the same number of pilots. I don't see the system shrinking much further, and you can't defer retirements forever.
09-10-2009, 05:48 AM
#86
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,822
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
Seniority deal? Here's how it SHOULD go down. Staple the LCC boys BELOW the AA furloughees.
09-10-2009, 05:57 AM
#87
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
I think the Reno Air and America West pilots should all gravitate to the top of a combined seniority list after the SH!T they have been put through...
No doubt Parker is attracted to the possibility of relocating to Dallas Ft.Worth. Great bars and line dancing there for him...
No doubt Parker is attracted to the possibility of relocating to Dallas Ft.Worth. Great bars and line dancing there for him...
09-10-2009, 07:04 AM
#88
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
I think the Reno Air and America West pilots should all gravitate to the top of a combined seniority list after the SH!T they have been put through...
No doubt Parker is attracted to the possibility of relocating to Dallas Ft.Worth. Great bars and line dancing there for him...
No doubt Parker is attracted to the possibility of relocating to Dallas Ft.Worth. Great bars and line dancing there for him...
09-10-2009, 07:26 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Telecom Company, President
Posts: 421
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
I think the Reno Air and America West pilots should all gravitate to the top of a combined seniority list after the SH!T they have been put through.
Well what should be done with the US East furloughees who have been through 2 furloughs and have been held hostage ever since they started at LCC in 1989. Some have as much as 12 years on the street and have had nothing but **** tossed at them. Now the AmWest people want to toss them under a bus AGAIN. A third time. And this time they take furloughs for people hired in 2004.
09-10-2009, 07:41 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: R U Serious?
Posts: 260
If something came down with this, all that are currently furloughed would be on 1 list and all active on another. Effectively, integrating 2 lists while creating 2 lists...and for the furloughs, all below the actives.
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