Hopefully it works out for all of us!

 

Great Santini -

It is all a matter or he said, she said. FAPA took care their pilots and SWAPA took care of their pilots.

I am not a smart guy, but there is a difference in a merger and a acquisition (purchase). If I went to buy some local store (the whole store), I can do what I want with that store. Same with the airlines, period.

By the way, I would not think that RAH is a joke. Your career and livelihood are dependent of what RAH does in the near term or you will not have a long term. Remember, the RAH pilot union is going to protect their pilots first before F9 pilots.

You have a long and busy road ahead. Good Luck.

 

I suppose that I will eventually give up trying to correct this misconception but for now I will keep banging my head against the proverbial wall.

Virtually every letter of the above post is inaccurate.

FAPA was not counting on arbitration. SWAPA ended the discussions and suggested that everyone meet again the next day. SWAPA was also going to request that SWA ask for an extension in the auction so that FAPA and SWAPA could meet and attempt to come to an agreement.

There was no gamble, as the two parties were in the middle of discussions. SWA never asked for an extension, they simply pulled their bid.

There was no gurantee if SWA dropped the labor restriction they would have prevailed in the auction.

There was no guarntee that SWAPA would have prevailed in the auction if FAPA accepted a staple.

You do reallize that RAH and FAPA were one of the two members of the UCC?

F9 the company had a responsibility to the UCC, and the UCC to their constituents, to recommend the "highest and best" bid.

SWA would have to almost double their $170 Million dollar bid to net the same benefit for the UCC. Even if they doubled their bid, F9 the company would have a difficult time establishing the elimination of virtually all the employees as the "best" bid.

FAPA negotiated until the SWA bid was pulled. That is pretty much the extent of FAPA's role in the process.

 

GS,

As a fellow Marine I take offense at your suggestion that I had no respect for myself when I came to SWA. I was not in the least bit interested in going to any of the "legacies" and only went to Pan Am waiting on the call from SWA. That call came and it was one of the best days of my life. As an instructor in the training command I became quite familiar with all of the legacies and how they "treated" their employees. I said no thanks and put my sights on SWA. It sounds like you were in the same situation as my fellow instructors going to their legacy only to watch their lives fall apart when they were furloughed during the first Gulf War. I personally feel very blessed and fortunate how things turned out for myself and my family. My observations of the industry and analysis of the various business models took me in a different direction. No crystal ball, just boring financial facts that often helped me fall asleep.

Given all this I would prefer to call the SWA of 20 years ago a well kept secret rather than a "joke" and that is because many of my fellow squadron mates (six of us are at SWA) did our homework. We were not totally impressed with what was happening at the "legacies."

Now as far as this thread goes I tend to also believe that spin has taken over for logic. I fault SWAPA and FAPA and of course the egos of none other than the flying gods many of us seem to think we are. Some have made the SWA pilots the more arrogant ones on APC in regards to the failed Frontier deal. I would say I have seen enough arrogance from both sides (and from non SWA/F9 posters) to say it is not just the SWA folks. As some have said "Time will tell."

Semper Fi

The Oscar

 

Oscar,
When I said "20 years ago SWA was a joke just like RAH is now", I meant that it was/is the the Conventional Wisdom at that time by the uneducated pilot masses. When I chose to fly for F9, I selected them for a multitude of reasons as as well. I agree with you that both airlines represent a force to be reckoned with in their respective lifecycles.

I was actually enthusiastic about the potential WN/F9 combination until hearing about the SLI negotiations. I thought it could be a win-win situation. Frontier would bring their international operations (Flag), market-share in Denver with its loyal following, our own airframes (until they could be replaced) and a small cadre of great pilots to enhance the combined carrier. However, when FAPA reported that SWAPA wanted to staple us to the bottom of the list, I thought that was a sh!tty consolation prize for what we brought to the table. At the end of the day, zoooropa has outlined the facts of the case and it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Orion and Oscar, thank you for your respectful replies.

Semper Fi

 

I think that we can agree that a 3 day integration agreement just wasn't going to happen.

 

I agree. But I also know that even with a labor agreement in place and the $170 million bid, the judge still would have gone with RAH. You were outbid and thousands weren't going to lose their jobs with RAH.

 

Time will tell whether that statement has any worth. SWA was upfront with its plans. Republic has proven that it keeps its cards close to the vest--especially when it plans to stab a group in the back.

I'm guessing that the F9 headquarters employees will be no better off in two years with RAH than they would have with SWA. The mechanics may be in the same boat. What happens to pilots, FAs, rampers, etc. is a play in progress. I'd guess that in the end, the number of people maintaining employment at RAH who wouldn't have at SWA will be in the few hundreds.

 

Bull. Thousands have all ready lost their jobs thanks to Republic and their willing low ball employees. I should know, I am one of them. Go spout your garbage somewhere else.

 

Are the Marines part of the Navy? Or is the Navy part of the Marines?