While you never know what Bedford is going to do next, one thing is certain.

Replacing expensive 100 seat jets with less expensive 100 seat jets, logical.

Replacing efficient 130-160 seat jets with more expensive 100 seat jets, illogical.

While our 320 rates are not the highest in the industry, they are slightly above average. Yet our block hour cost is the lowest thanks to a well written contract and the number of hours that we fly.

Bedford doesn't want to fly only EMB 190/175/170 because he realizes that some routes can make money with 100 seats while others can accommodate a larger gauge aircraft.

If you are trying to say that the EMB's will be utilized in denver while the buses will be moved to other cities, then you are correct.

If you are trying to say that the EMB's will replace buses and the number of buses flying around will decrease, then you are incorrect. There are actually more buses being delivered, as well as more 190's.

Pilot rates are not the "end all be all" numbers that determine operating cost. It is actually more expensive, at RAH rates, to fly a 190 than it is to fly a F9 318. Again, don't take my word for it, the data is all publicly available.

You also mentioned "a year or so". I believe in one year all FAPA pilots will be recalled and we will be mired in a SLI quagmire, or the dust will be settling from an arbiter's decision on SLI.

 

"FAPA sold their pilots down the river"

Once again, Spanky...

Has a single FAPA pilot on this board expressed their displeasure with the actions of FAPA? If we're happy with our leadership, why shouldn't you be?

 

I would really like to see this thread restarted in one year to see who was right and who eats the worm.

 

Can you describe a scenario in which, one year from now, SWAPilots would conceivably admit that Southwest had 'eaten the worm'? Shame on you for implying the presence of humility, where it so obviously does not exist. ;-)

 

Most SWA pilots are good people. Just like in the book "Nuts", they would do what it takes to make the airline run well.

Just like the FAPA pilots, I bet 95% of you are good people, and I know several. All are good people.

If you FAPA guys read an earlier thread of mine, no ill will intended as most SWA guys would also say I hope you do well. Now, for the worm eatin'. If FAPA and any form of F9 is still around next year I will eat the worm.

'Cause I am man enough to do it, and I hope I eat the worm.

See ya next year.

 

Frontier will be gone in a year- I'd bet money on it in Vegas if they were taking bets.

 

I disagree; at least the name Frontier Airlines will still be out there along with the animals on the tails...

 

That's true

agreed again...

Depends on what the historical load factors have been on those 130+ seaters... if they are going out with an average of 90-115 then the 100 seat plane wins out. One less FA, and all the associated training and benefit costs, plus you get the remaining crew at regional rates and rules.

Agreed with the rest too... good post, with the one possible exception.

 

The simple fact of the entire FAPA/SWA discussion is that FAPA felt SWA wanted the airline badly. They felt that in the end SWA would drop the clause requiring a pilot agreement from the purchase offer and would be the winning bidder. FAPA would then have access to binding arbitration under the new federal law. It was a gamble that back fired. If they looked at the Delta/NWA merger in which management at Delta made a similiar promise to the pilots and then stiffed them they may have felt that the outcome they hoped for was logical.
FAPA knows that the reality of the pilots at Frontier enjoying the same quality of life and pay at RAH verses SWA even with a staple at SWA is virtually nil. They gambled and it did not work out. Now its about spin.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The simple fact of the entire FAPA/SWA discussion is that FAPA felt SWA wanted the airline badly. They felt that in the end SWA would drop the clause requiring a pilot agreement from the purchase offer and would be the winning bidder. FAPA would then have access to binding arbitration under the new federal law. It was a gamble that back fired. If they looked at the Delta/NWA merger in which management at Delta made a similiar promise to the pilots and then stiffed them they may have felt that the outcome they hoped for was logical.

I follow your logic but as a FAPA member I disagree with your conclusion wholeheartedly. If FAPA accepted a staple-job from SWAPA our BOD would have been tarred and feathered by our pilot group. Not only is it counter to the MB Act and would set horrible precident, but it would probably be illegal as well. Oh, there are a few Lynx pilots with stars in their eyes and a few wannabe F9ers that would have liked it, but by and large this group will tell any suitor where they can place their stapler. Not unlike SWA 20 years ago, we here at F9 are proud of what we built and the sacrafices that we've made. We are not going to sell out for SWA's 20 gold pieces and go away quietly. We built this motherfocker. If you want it you are going to have to come take the SOB.

Now, as far as the future goes, you could be right, but when I got in this business SWA was a joke (like RAH is now) and no self-respecting pilot would go there when a career at Delta, Northwest, Pan Am, etc could be had. Many of us went down that road and found ourselves back at places like Frontier after the fallout. Crystal Ball it all you want, but nobody knows the future.