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Old 06-25-2006, 01:09 PM   #1  
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Default Picket lines

QUOTE --- Eric Stratton
“I'm assuming paladin and old gasser that you both crossed picket lines. What I'm curious about is did you work their before crossing or were you turbo's, as I've been told they are called, and why did you do it.”

I've heard that argument that if they didn't scab that there wouldn't be Continental but wouldn't some other airline have filled that void?


Since Eric’s quote is of a different subject matter than the “CAL #4 and NWA #5” topic, a new thread is appropriate for the questions he asks as well the other posts that concern the crossing of picket lines and comments about scabs.

I can’t speak for “gasser” but the fact of the matter is it is irrelevant as for who and when I worked and whether or not I crossed a picket line. Just for the record I have never heard the term turbo’s, maybe someone could enlighten me. However, what I would like to address is the more fundamental question of not “why would someone cross a picket line” but why “one should NOT cross a picket line.” The short answer is if you need the job and have a family to support then why not. Of course you should always evaluate the situation and determine for yourself the economics, the viability of the company and the long term prospects as well as the consequences, both intended and unintended, of such a decision. With the benefit of hindsight it seems to me those who chose to work for CAL in the early eighties made a pretty good decision because in terms of career they are better off than most. No jobs were taken because the strikers were free to return to work anytime and many of them did at there original seniority number. The last time I checked we still live in a somewhat free society where owners as well as labor can determine for themselves how much they can afford to pay and be paid. As I have said before the economic value of a person's work is determined by a single principle: the voluntary consent of those who chose to trade their work or products in return.

As to the question of had there not been sufficient numbers ready to cross the picket line wouldn’t Frank have been forced to deal with the pilots. No doubt he would have. But, it was not just the pilots he would have to deal with; the entire company took a 50% cut in pay. The question is would the company as we know it now have survived. We’ll never know because there were enough people who made the decision “I can work here at these wages and improve my position”. Would another airline have stepped up to fill the void had that not happened? Most likely yes. Would that company have been in a position to pay the kind of salaries and benefits of the so called “glory days” of airline flying? I doubt it. The fact remains there was already a company in place with a 121 Operating Certificate ready to fill that void.

“757 Driver” likes to wax eloquent about how he is ready to make sacrifices for the pilots at CAL, and even participate in a national strike for what he intimates is the common good of pilots industry wide. In the absence of a single national airline that is subsidized by the taxpayer and doesn’t have to deal with the profit motive, such an action would prove to be futile because there will always be people who reject the ethics of self sacrifice and pursue their self interest. Most thinking people understand, at least implicitly, that to sacrifice, in this context, means the surrender of a value for the sake of a lesser value or a non value. And anyone who says they would trade a value for a lesser value is either a fool or a liar (or both) with a different agenda. As for the “common good” it is a meaningless concept, unless taken literally, in which case its only possible meaning is: the sum of the good of all the individuals involved. But if that is the case, using the “common good” as moral criterion, it is still a meaningless concept because it leaves open the question of who gets to decide what is good for the individuals involved and how is it determined.

Hank Duffy and his union thugs in Herndon, VA as well as most of the folks at UAL, DAL, NWA, and many of the other ALPA carriers were more than ready to sacrifice the careers of CAL employees. Their thinking was that if they could only get rid of Lorenzo they would be immune to the economic realities of a deregulated marketplace. What they didn’t fully comprehend was that if the airlines were going to survive in this deregulated environment the airlines were going to have to change the way they conducted business. Crandle at AA realized this fact when he fired the first shot across the bow with his “B” scale. Lorenzo figured it out when he sought concessions from TI and failed but was still able to start a low cost carrier out of LGA. Don Burr saw the opportunity when he founded PEX. My point in all this is that for people like “fireman0174” and others to cast disparaging remarks at the individuals who crossed picket lines so they could feed their families and not call into question the integrity of the people who went to work for the likes of New York Air, Peoples, etc. is intellectually dishonest. Did they not go to work for below union scale to pursue their self interest? So Eric tell me what is so sacrosanct about a picket line?

I am not saying Airline Deregulation was necessarily a good thing but the fact remains it is with us and the challenge before us is we have to deal with it. As for the all the aspiring pilots who happen to read this and find aviation their calling all I can say is tread that road carefully for it is fraught with challenges as well as disappointment. Get as much advice and consider as many different points of view as possible. Don’t drink too much of the ALPA Kool Aid and definitely stay away from management beverages as well. In short think for yourself and always check six because no one will look out for your interests better than you. Yes and even listen to ol’ “SkyHigh” for he better than anyone knows the truth cannot be sugar coated with Novocain. As for me I have been at this business for close to 35 years and at the majors for well over 20. I have loved every minute of it and there are very few things I would have done differently. I love my job and actually enjoy going to work.

In closing I would like to add this poem. The author I do not know but it is to all the scabs, strikers, crawlbacks, and everyone in between.



A Pilots Requiem

I hope there’s a place way up in the sky, a home
where pilots can go on the day they die.

A place where a guy can buy an ole cold beer,
for a friend and comrade, whose memory is dear.

A place where doctor or lawyer would dare not tread,
and FAA type would ere be caught dead.

A quaint little place, just a bit dark and full of smoke;
where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke.

The kind of a place where a lady could go and be
safe and protected by the men she would know.

Oh there must be a place where old pilots go,
when their flying is finished, and their airspeed is low.

Where the whiskey is old and women are young,
Where tales about flying are sung and told.

Where you'd see the fellows who'd flown West before,
and they'd call out your name as you walked through the door.

Where friends would buy you a drink, if your thirst should be bad,
and relate to others, “He was quite a good lad”

And then through the mist, you spot the old guy
who taught you to fly.

Though you had not seen him in years he’d nod his old head, and grin ear to ear, and say, “Welcome Home my son, I’m pleased that you’re here”.

”For this is the place where true flyers come,
when their journey is over, and their wars have been won.

They’ve come here at last to be safe and alone from the
Union thug and management clone; free from the
politicians and lawyers, the Feds and the noise. A place
where all hours are happy, and they’re all just good ole boys.

Now you can relax with a cold one, and maybe deal from a deck,
for this is Heaven my son… You’ve passed your last check!”
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Old 06-25-2006, 01:34 PM   #2  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin
I can’t speak for “gasser” but the fact of the matter is it is irrelevant as for who and when I worked and whether or not I crossed a picket line.
Stopped reading right about here. You obviously did cross a picket line and, just like your scab breathren, have some lame ass excuse as to why you crossed.

I have many friends who didn't cross and they suffered the same hardships that you never had to, yet espouse that you could have.

Save it. A Scab is a Scab.
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Old 06-25-2006, 01:36 PM   #3  
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One thing about scabs - they are real good at justifying their actions.

click-click
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Old 06-25-2006, 01:38 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Stopped reading right about here. You obviously did cross a picket line and, just like your scab breathren, have some lame ass excuse as to why you crossed.

I have many friends who didn't cross and they suffered the same hardships that you never had to, yet espouse that you could have.

Save it. A Scab is a Scab.
My you have some real issues!!
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Old 06-25-2006, 01:46 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin
My you have some real issues!!

Only one that concerns you.

I do however have a very clear conscience and can safely say that I have never and would never cross a picket line.

Your lengthy post above is a cheap attempt to justify why you crossed the line here at CAL. Of course, bring up the New York Air and PE people, that'll work.

For all your smoke and mirror BS your still a scab.

Had you gotten on here and perhaps said "oops, I f'd up and probably shouldn't have crossed that line back in '83", then maybe you'd elicit some sympathy.

To get on this forum and try and rationalize your position is useless and futile. You cowardly lept into Franks arms and helped destroy an airline. End of Story.

Some advice, delete this post and if it helps you sleep at night keep pushing your BS to the new-hires you fly with.

Last edited by 757Driver; 06-25-2006 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:16 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin
My you have some real issues!!


Please grow a spine and watch the Band of Brothers series.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:59 PM   #7  
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How do guys fly together if one is a scab and the other is not? There seems to be a lot of bitterness over it, must make for some interesting cockpit discussions.
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Old 06-25-2006, 04:24 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERJ135
How do guys fly together if one is a scab and the other is not? There seems to be a lot of bitterness over it, must make for some interesting cockpit discussions.
The only two scabs I've ever flown with were bitter @ssholes, so I didn't want to talk to them anyway. They thought everybody was out to get them...they were right of course.

And yes, they all have excuses.
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Old 06-25-2006, 04:32 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERJ135
How do guys fly together if one is a scab and the other is not? There seems to be a lot of bitterness over it, must make for some interesting cockpit discussions.
I use the "gays in the military" policy: "Don't ask, don't tell".

I'm sure I've flown with some, but I don't look them up in my scab list. I'm a junior FO, so I tend to fly with non-scabs. The scabs are too senior for me to fly with. I'd never have thought that being junior could be a good thing!
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Old 06-25-2006, 04:37 PM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERJ135
How do guys fly together if one is a scab and the other is not? There seems to be a lot of bitterness over it, must make for some interesting cockpit discussions.
I've flown with scabs as a F/O and as Captain, and other than operational issues, you don't talk to them or go out with them on layovers.
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