Why don't you make that your project.

 

I have tried but so far the donations are not flowing in. If a group of us could put together an association of some kind that would be better. Every new student pilot could receive a DVD and printed materials on the truth about aviation.

If every commercial pilot would donate $5 per year I am sure that we could do some good work towards cutting down the number of new career entrants. AOPA would not like it though.

Skyhigh

 

After reading part of the "ugly" on the website, I have a crazy idea. Airlines are all based on seniority, correct? What if the FAA implemented a seniority based license system. i.e. each 5 years you get a new "bar" or whatever on your ATP license. This could potentially give pilots some more advantages to land an equal job at a comparable pay scale, and more leverage against their current employer. For example...

Lets say the FAA made it a requirement for certain upgrades and seat assignments to be based on this system. Take a CA slot on the 747 at airline A have a requirement of a 10 year 121 experienced pilot, not a 10 year at airline A alone! Now, lets say 747 CA at airline A didnt like the way things were going and wanted to go to airline B. In todays airlines, this would be a crazy move! The captain at airline A has an awesome seniority number and salary. Why would he/she want to give that up to sit reserve for half the pay at Airline B!!?? If the FAA rewarded experience (not just who got their license first but who's had a part 121 employee number longer) they could make a lateral type move into a comparable pay scale instead of going to the bottom of the pay scale.

Yes, I understand that airlines already do seniority based salary and schedule rewards. However this is all based on CURRENT pilots on their own seniority list. I guess what I'm getting at is the idea of a "universal" seniority list that could transfer from airline A to airline B. This could cause airlines to take a step back knowing their pilots have more options out there.

I think that as pilot's we can all respect the long time and hours other pilots from other airlines, have put into the 121 world. It seems almost criminal to lock people into positions they are not happy with because of the fear of losing money, QOL and other things they are used to having at there current jobs. This doest happen in other professions....Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, you name it. In a normal economy most professions can make a lateral or progressive move from company to company without having to start over. If pilots were able to bring what they have earned over the years to another airline, things could change for the good.....anyways, food for thought.

 

Nice idea although how will anyone ever advance at a given company to get these bars?

Every time one company starts to get a step ahead of another, company A will be inundated with experienced pilots wanting to leave their 'worse' airline and join at the same position.

Of course these would get hired much faster than a less experienced pilot and the rest of company A pilots will just sit and watch as people jump in ahead of them... and never get that coveted '2nd bar' on his/her ATP.

I like the idea though, the current system sucks.

 

In my crazy made up world, pilots would gain seniority at their own airline just as they do now. But! this twist is that they would also gain a "blanket" seniority with the FAA. Just as an example, each 3-5 years a pilot is at a 121 carrier, they get a recognition of some sort put on there record and or license. (I'm sure they could work something out for the 135 folks too )This seniority if you will, could be taken anywhere they wish to go once they've earned it.

This only works if the FAA would require certain seats to be filled only by those who have certain accolades or seniority points (with ANY carrier, not just their own) this would make a lateral move for certain pilots possible due to the fact that Company "A" would be required to bring in a certain calibar pilot if one wasnt readily available within the company. (i'll use the same example I have been; a 10 year 121 time requirement to get into the left seat of a 74) I know what you're thinking... they already do reward experience, via hours logged! But they don't when you switch companies or airlines. If a 20 year CA at AA wanted to make a move to DAL he/she would start off in the right seat of whatever was available and lose a large amount of income in the process. This is why airlines have pilots over the coals. They know these people aren't going anywhere any time soon.

This model would be much closer to any other corporation in the free world. Take the company "Blockbuster" for example. Lets say a regional manager position opens up in the company. Typically, if someone within the company cuts the mustard to take that position, they're in. If no one is qualified, they hire from outside the company.

NOW, new hire candidates for BB would be looking at this job as a direct entry into the manager position. I mean why not? they've been a manager at their current job for 5-10 years making descent money and have come to EXPECT it. If Blockbuster comes along offering a similar position for better money and closer to home, I have a feeling a prospective new hire would want this position. If they knew there was a chance he/she would be sent to a random blockbuster in the middle of nowhere, to stock shelves before they are able work there way back up to a regional manager (or assistent TO the regional manager ) things might be different.

I do see potential problems with airlines having a certain position open up and going outside their own pilots to hire. This would be due to training costs I'm sure. It would make sense for an airline to get a pilot who is already typed in the 747. This raises the issue of keeping pilots underneath without the type, essentially stuck. BUT if the unions stepped in and made certain pay after a certain amount of seniority points (i.e. the FAA blanket) a requirement, it could ease the pain. This brings up another point that I don't really want to get started on because I'm already writing a small novel here. But, I think they should completely get away from the entire SIC, PIC scenario anyway. Call a CA or an FO what you will but I think if you're the Flying Pilot, you should be able to log PIC time. We need to get away from the SIC type. Back to my previous rant.

My point is this. Airlines could possibly have to compete for pilots!!! Crazy notion I know. Pilots are a caliber of people that should be competed for. Good Doctors and Lawyers are a coveted commodity. We spend just as much on our education and training as most doctors. Experience should be rewarded! Not just at one airline!!!

 

Great ideas but the problem is that there are far too many organizations that call themselves 'unions' when all they are are self serving to those at the top in their seniority. For example, there is only one electrical workers union in which workers retain their number and move freely. Not the case in aviation.

 

I think your site is very informative. I might look a little closer at the cost of obtaining your certificates and ratings. While some Universities may have fairly reasonable prices, there are still a lot of people that end up shelling out rediculous amounts of money to places like ALL ATPs, Embry Riddle, UND, Delta Connection Academy, PanAm Flight Academy and a number of others that are way above $50,000.00. Other than that, I think you did a great job at giving prospective from each side of the fence.

 

Many pilots are too selfish and pompous to ever allow any type of national seniority list. I would say the majority are in fact to selfish to see the benefit our labor group would gain by national seniority. The management are for sure against national seniority...there would be no benefit in giving United furloughs preferential hiring at a **** hole regional to fly United routes if they brought seniority and pay with them to the new job.

 

You're absolutely right. The majors gave contracts to the regionals for cheap labor and that's essentially what they get. And as long as the regionals and their pilots are willing to take it, it probably isn't going to change. It would be an almost impossible battle to get something like a national seniority list going, and hard to maintain. BUT, anything is possible. I'm for anything that could potentially better the lives of the crews keeping these things in the air, instead of lining the pockets of those who profit from others hard (mostly unnoticed) work. That is one thing the airlines share with corpoarte America though! "You can't score unless you shoot" - Wayne Gretzky

 

Yeah that's a complete cluster in it's own right. It would be nice to have everyone streamlined into one union.