marcal

Hi,

Obviously I can see the pay rates, etc on APC, but I wanted to get an honest idea on typical first and second year pay on the smallest aircraft ie MD-80/737.

If on reserve, can you expect to break guarantee?

Also, how much is med insurance for a family per month?

Last question, is the 401K the only option for retirement money? I see a B plan of 10% on APC but does that show up in your paycheck or a totally seperate account? I've never had a retirement plan besides 401K so please excuse my naivete.

Thanks
Marcal

alfaromeo

I will answer what I can. Our DC plan is a separate plan from the 401K but it works pretty much the same. Right now the company puts 2% in your 401K (it is not a match, you get it even if you contribute nothing) and you get 10% in a your DC plan. The DC contribution goes up 1% each of the next two years in January, so you will soon have 2% 401K and 12% DC for a total of 14% company contribution. What you put in your own 401K is your own decision.

A junior pilot will have to answer the rest of the questions. Delta pilots average about 1000 hours of pay per year. You can use that as a gauge on what your pay will be based on the pay rates.

Cycle Pilot

I broke guarantee a couple of times last summer on the -88, but haven't since. I wouldn't plan on breaking guarantee on the -88. It's pretty rare. Med insurance for my family using an HRA is $200 per month. I average about 14-15 days at home a month and I commute coast to coast. If you live in base as a reserve, your QOL will be MUCH better! Hope this helps!

Homa

Hey Cycle, glad to hear DAL is planning on bringing 240 new-hires on-board. Hopefully it will get you out of commuting coast to coast.

LeineLodge

Your results may vary, but I'll do my best.

I'm not sure where you're coming from, but if you're currently at a regional you can probably expect to credit less per month than you're used to. On the up side, the hourly rate will be higher, eventually.

As far as smallest aircraft, the junior positions right now are DC-9 in DTW and M-88 in NYC. NYC covers all 3 airports which I hear is a big pain on reserve (read expensive.) A large factor determining if you will break the 70 hour reserve guarantee is whether you live in base or not, and what equipment/base you are assigned to. The best way for you to go over guarantee is if the company comes up short (typically on a weekend or holiday or day with horrendous weather which we call IROPS - for Irregular OPS). The company will then begin running out of options and start awarding Greenslips (overtime - which is paid directly over guarantee) or Inverse Assigments (which is a benign version of junior manning, also paid above guarantee. This of course means you would need to be near the airport and useful to the company to be able to accept any of this overtime/premium flying. If you commute it is pretty difficult to do any of this "above-guarantee" flying.

To go over guarantee the traditional way, you would have to fly on most or all of your reserve days (18 per month, prorated for absences such as vacation, sick, MIL leave, etc.) The way our contract is setup with reserve credit, DH credit, reserve utilization order, and a few other things it is difficult, but not impossible to credit over 70 hours. If you do, you will be worn out. My biggest month going over 70 credit hours, I got to 78.

Bottom line, do not count on getting more than 70 hours until you can hold a line. Reserves are not allowed to pick up open time, nor can you take a trip that a line holder is trying to drop. The two scenarios described above are the only ways to make some extra cash.

With all that said, 1000 hours of pay per year is probably a high estimate for a reserve pilot.

As far as pay goes, I'm on the bus which is a little more than the 9 and 88 and a little less than the 737. On 2nd year pay (we won't talk about first year pay at NWA since it doesn't exist anymore ) I took in right at $80k last year, with last summer being under the NWA contract and crediting mid/upper 80's for the summer months.

My advice which isn't worth much. Don't focus too much on first year pay or the hourly rates. You will actually make more money if you get senior in a junior category and can control your schedule (credit) as a regular lineholder. There are plenty examples of 88 FO's that live in base and Greenslip making more than 777 FO's who only get guarantee every month. Compare your current contract to ours, and you will probably find that if you're at a regional (with ExpressJet being the notable exception) that our contract is better than most regionals. Quality of life is much better than the abusive regional world, IMO. The downside is you will be junior for a LONG time (our retirements and movement don't really pick up until 2017-2018, which is an eternity away in this business.)

In the end, it's a very personal decision of whether to make the leap of faith or not. Obviously considering your age, family situation, base preference, commuter or not, etc you'll have to decide. For me it was worth, and has been great so far. I'd be very senior had I stayed behind at my old company, and being junior and commuting reserve here is still way better.

I wish you and everyone else the best of luck.

Superpilot92

I wouldn't say the retirements don't start up till 2017. That's when they start to peak. Between now and then we should see a few hundred retire a year. Could be more depending on who goes and when.

The movement should be constant on attrition alone, any growth is a bonus. Anyone who gets on in the next few hiring spurts will be catching the front side of the wave IMHO

LeineLodge

I agree, but a few hundred per year is only a small percentage of a 12,000 pilot group. This only helps if they hire new pilots behind you too (which they finally are .)

Super is right though, retirements take off like crazy in 2017-ish to the tune of 500-800 per year, provided we don't have age 70 to contend with by then. Now would be an excellent time to get your name on the list, especially if you are young enough to wait it out.

Superpilot92

The key is that the retirements alone, even in the next few years will spur continuous hiring and any potential growth will add to it. Once we get closer to the big numbers then hiring will happen like crazy and it will take everything the company has in order to keep up.

RockyBoy

Your gonna make less here for the first few years. You will complain about the reserve system and ability to improve your schedule and QOL when you become a lineholder. It's far from a perfect world here at Delta, but it is by far the best place to be of the airlines that are hiring. I complain about stuff that needs to be changed and should be changed, but Delta is a great place to work and has great people in Flight Ops to make your job easier and enjoyable. If you can make your budget work on 55-60K per year then come on over, suck it up the first few years on lower pay, hope 2012 improves reserve and other stuff, and by 2018 you will rocket up the list and most likely be a very senior FO or possibly a junior captain within 12 years. The guys who get hired in the next couple years will do very good as far as seniority progession goes. I think some of the young guys who get hired here in the next few years will be captains in their mid-30's.

satchip

1st year pay is the highest in the industry, over $50/hr. 2nd year you'll make as much as you want if you live in base or a VERY short commute. You won't get rich but it beats digging ditches. Live within your means the first few years and build those habits and you will be rich by the time you retire.