Man, I didn't realize those rates were 4 years out. Those rates aren't so good.

 

Well since anyone who is in negotiations knows that they look at an industry average, we are looking to all you DAL, UAL, AA, etc folks to raise the bar for us next time. They averaged all the rates and we got parity with the average (and SWA was in the mix). So, we hope that with better times, the legacies and others will negotiate better rates and we can build on that.

But also remember, we have better work rules. Far better! And our health insurance is capped at a maximum 7% annual raise when we all know the cost of health insurance will increase drastically (plus our dental is thrown in for free).

There's a lot more and I'm not going into it. The road shows did.

So, if 11 planes show up next year, what happens to those FO's who are complaining (and for whom we went out on strike)?

 

So your basically saying, "we, a LLC that is very profitable, will never lead the way for pay scales on "X" equipment. We will always let are mgnt base our worthiness on legacies that don't have the profits we do because they are bigger and have been around longer."

That's what I get out of your first paragraph.

You guys had the b@lls to strike, but not to lead the way for A320 pay scales.

PtP

 

No, you don't understand. It's the way union negotiations go. If you think you can change the way it's done, join the NC and try.

It's not all about pay. Spirit pilots were surveyed and said QOL was more important. We maintained that. It's called TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGES. It's not just about the base rate of pay. You don't understand.

You can rant and rave all you want about us to set industry leading wages. We knew that was never going to happen and never negotiated for that. We want more aircraft to show up and people to move up. You don't understand.

The company wanted $40MM in concessions. We got $78 MM in improvements. We lost nothing in the strike. It was a successful strike. Most are not because strikers are out too long to gain any real advance and the company suffers a loss so they can't offer a better package. You don't understand.

If you don't want to join the NC, just stand by and see what happens before you predict doom and gloom. I'm so tired of the Negative Nancy's.

 

Oh, ok. I'm happy for you guys that you got what you wanted.

Thank you for clearing up that I don't understand. I did just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

You did say that you can't get what your worth until the Legacies get what your worth first, though.

I have no dog in the fight, but I find your first statement is the outdated, scary, weak and anti-advancing attitude that pilots in the airline industry continue to nurture.

I'll butt out now.

PtP

 

Agreed with all except with the last sentence, I love negative Nancy's-Nellie's, I have'm for breakfast!, big guys behind the computer, coaching from home!!

 

No I said negotiations are always based on an industry average. SWA was included but the low wages of some others drove down the average (like UAL, USAirways, etc). They drove down the industry average. We can only negotiate from that.

If you don't bellieve me, join a NC and find out.

Have a good day in your Internet anonymous world where you can try to insult others. You have a lot to learn.

 

I think it's hard for you to justify such a statement when 74% of your peers voted in favor of the contract. That's a very good ratification vote. Apparently your fellow pilots were quite pleased with what was achieved. Hardly a "loss."

Do you honestly expect that the pilots at a company with only 28 airplanes will be able to "lead the way?" A little reality, please. They made an incredible stride forward in pay when compared to their old contract, maintained their above-average work rules, and got some nice kickers like a 7% limit on insurance premium increases. I think they did a pretty good job.

 

Listen anonymous "lostplanetairman," I'm not on here to insult you; If I was, you would know it. Your first statement, that I commented on, was basically an excuse in defense of someone noting that your new pay scale #s were low. I'm playing devil's advocate to "LEARN" why you have that attitude about why your #s at DOS are low. I understand the "total compensation" plan as it relates to work rules; I work for World Airways and you can't tell how good life is there if you look at our pay #s. What I can say though, is that if SWA pilots would have had that attitude about industry average, they wouldn't have been at the TOP of your comparison scales.

By the way my "anonymous world" resides in N. Scottsdale, AZ. I'm a 35 y.o. white, male pilot for World Airways. I'm 6' tall and 190 lbs. I have brown hair and hazel eyes. If you want to, you can PM me your # and I'll call you and give you my name so you can know who your talking to.

PtP

 

The reality is, that with the attitude of "we only have 28 airplanes," no they won't lead the way. Thanks for pointing that out.

Congrats, I'm glad that you guys are happy with what you got. Maybe your hard work will rub off on the rest of the industry when it is their turns.

PtP