Delta Pilots Association
10-17-2010, 09:54 AM
#1271
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,940
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I am not sure I get your point. If our company could not wet lease maybe we would have 5000 + pilots.
The reality is that your current Union leadership (in house MEC) will most likely be the same under your new Independent Union.
yes a few names here and there will change, but ultimately the same folks who are volunteering now will be the ones who volunteer with your independent.
If you are happy with your current leadership fine, if you are not vote them out. If you cannot get enough support from Line guys to vote them out, do you really think it will be any different under an Independent? In our experience at FedEx we had the same complaints as I see you guys posting.
In our case the Independent Union wasn't the answer and it took us 10 wasted years to figure that out.
And BTW our mere 4500 pilots gives ALPA approx 18 Million a year in dues.
So does SIZE really matter?
The reality is that your current Union leadership (in house MEC) will most likely be the same under your new Independent Union.
yes a few names here and there will change, but ultimately the same folks who are volunteering now will be the ones who volunteer with your independent.
If you are happy with your current leadership fine, if you are not vote them out. If you cannot get enough support from Line guys to vote them out, do you really think it will be any different under an Independent? In our experience at FedEx we had the same complaints as I see you guys posting.
In our case the Independent Union wasn't the answer and it took us 10 wasted years to figure that out.
And BTW our mere 4500 pilots gives ALPA approx 18 Million a year in dues.
So does SIZE really matter?
10-17-2010, 10:22 AM
#1272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
We have something worse than RJ outsourcing.
We have "Wet leasing" and you can see White 747's, MD-11s and A300's on our ramps around the world carrying our freight using our call signs.
If you guys want to leave then leave. I was giving you a perspective from one one has been there and done that. The grass is not any greener.
Good Luck
We have "Wet leasing" and you can see White 747's, MD-11s and A300's on our ramps around the world carrying our freight using our call signs.
If you guys want to leave then leave. I was giving you a perspective from one one has been there and done that. The grass is not any greener.
Good Luck
10-17-2010, 10:24 AM
#1273
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by slowplay
The statement about pay is one of fact. There is no inflation adjustment in that statement. Nobody, ALPA or independent, in the domestic airline industry has compensation approaching that what Delta pilots were paid in 2004. What critical thinking is required on that statement of fact?
As to trees, why don't you tell me which tree I should be barking up? This is a thread about something that purports to be an independent union, yet it is completely undefined and controlled by a "select" group in Tampa. Help me out here...
As to trees, why don't you tell me which tree I should be barking up? This is a thread about something that purports to be an independent union, yet it is completely undefined and controlled by a "select" group in Tampa. Help me out here...
While I agree that inflation is out of your control, does it even matter to you that the dollar was devalued by 10% last month? In your fact based world, does that mean I got a raise or took a hit?
10-17-2010, 10:28 AM
#1274
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I am not sure I get your point. If our company could not wet lease maybe we would have 5000 + pilots.
The reality is that your current Union leadership (in house MEC) will most likely be the same under your new Independent Union.
yes a few names here and there will change, but ultimately the same folks who are volunteering now will be the ones who volunteer with your independent.
If you are happy with your current leadership fine, if you are not vote them out. If you cannot get enough support from Line guys to vote them out, do you really think it will be any different under an Independent? In our experience at FedEx we had the same complaints as I see you guys posting.
In our case the Independent Union wasn't the answer and it took us 10 wasted years to figure that out.
And BTW our mere 4500 pilots gives ALPA approx 18 Million a year in dues.
So does SIZE really matter?
The reality is that your current Union leadership (in house MEC) will most likely be the same under your new Independent Union.
yes a few names here and there will change, but ultimately the same folks who are volunteering now will be the ones who volunteer with your independent.
If you are happy with your current leadership fine, if you are not vote them out. If you cannot get enough support from Line guys to vote them out, do you really think it will be any different under an Independent? In our experience at FedEx we had the same complaints as I see you guys posting.
In our case the Independent Union wasn't the answer and it took us 10 wasted years to figure that out.
And BTW our mere 4500 pilots gives ALPA approx 18 Million a year in dues.
So does SIZE really matter?
Redeye;
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I think what you are saying is reasonable and honest.
10-17-2010, 11:48 AM
#1275
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 7
Here is an article that might add to the discussion of DPA.
Meet Tim Caplinger, Founder, Delta Pilots Association
Meet Tim Caplinger, Founder, Delta Pilots Association
10-17-2010, 12:23 PM
#1276
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by slowplay
The statement about pay is one of fact. There is no inflation adjustment in that statement. Nobody, ALPA or independent, in the domestic airline industry has compensation approaching that what Delta pilots were paid in 2004. What critical thinking is required on that statement of fact?
As to trees, why don't you tell me which tree I should be barking up? This is a thread about something that purports to be an independent union, yet it is completely undefined and controlled by a "select" group in Tampa. Help me out here...
As to trees, why don't you tell me which tree I should be barking up? This is a thread about something that purports to be an independent union, yet it is completely undefined and controlled by a "select" group in Tampa. Help me out here...
10-17-2010, 12:40 PM
#1277
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,839
Originally Posted by tsquare
Oh please don't try to spin the claim and stock as some sort of gift. In case you haven't noticed, our DB retirement is gone. I'm 50 sir.. in what is affectionately known as the DD zone. But since you brought it up, I am not complaining about the note/claim.. and I think Lee did a great job in obtaining those... but please don't try spinning alpa as having manhandled management on that. Like I have said before, I am willing to give him a chance at national. But I DEMAND that he reign in the expenses there starting with his own. Period. Anything shy of that.. and I fill out a card. And $45K is an insult.. not a correction. That's not even a good start. And while we are at it, there is nothing on the next contract to pay for.. all have been paid for well in advance, so walk down the hall and tell the negotiators not to ask the standard question "what are you willing to give up for that", because that garbage ain't gonna fly anymore. And tell Heiko that the gators' run is OVER! 
Nor make a statement about attempting to recapture the flying.
Nor even make a statement in support of those pilot groups who are trying.
Sure, AMR has stagnation. They also have their A fund, work rules and control of their outsourced flying.
We also have stagnation. We have fewer pilots now than when the merger closed. Sure, we've hired, but not even enough to make up for those who have retired.
In spite of this tremendous flexibility we gave up to the company, along with pay rates and retirement, there are 255 DC-9 replacement jets. 255. At 8 pilots per aircraft, that is 2,040 pilots NOT on the DAL list, and that is a HUGE hit for every pilot on our list, because the number of pilots behind you is more important than the number in front.
That's 1,020 pilots who didn't see the largest percentage increase that they see in their career (an upgrade). That's 1,020 pilots who didn't see an improvement in their QoL when the others upgraded. And that's 12,000 pilots who didn't see overall improvements because there are now less pilots behind them.
Take a look around. You HAVE been outsourced. You now have competing pilots flying your routes. Those "RJs" are flying between such 'regional' cities as Detroit to Houston.
And they want more. The new FT&DT rules will make RJs increasingly expensive, but they will push, and push to make sure those jets can fly their capacity of 85-95 seats.
Choose wisely...
Nu
10-17-2010, 12:45 PM
#1278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Lee knows this...that's why his campaign letter never even mentioned scope or regional flying. He needed the majors' votes to get elected. But now that he's in, he needs to watch out for the regionals.
Carl
Carl
And THAT'S what gives us the leverage to fix National.
10-17-2010, 01:03 PM
#1279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
Originally Posted by fireman0174
Perhaps the lowest paid airlines should be a factor in the President's salary as an incentive to bring up the rear.
Originally Posted by Xray678
Then let the president of ALPA resign his seniority number. Can't have it both ways.
10-17-2010, 01:05 PM
#1280
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by DAWGS
How many jobs have you lost because of wet lease? Delta itself was over 10000 pilots in 2001. Today with Northwest we are at 12000. Thousands less pilots at Mainline with the same amount of flying or more overall for Delta. Real Lost Jobs for our group. We pay 1.95% to a national union that represents the pilots who have replaced the mainline pilot. Those pilots now outnumber us within our own union. This is a major conflict. I am sure FED EX came into ALPA for its own unique set of reasons. I think Delta Pilots and other major pilots will exit ALPA for its own set of reasons. Mainly related to scope and the conflict within our union.
Who relaxed scope (pre 9/11 and BK) at both DAL and NWA??
Who will fix this problem, what (would) be the difference between ALPA (national) and an independent in solving this?
We have a society that has an aversion to taking responsibility for its own screw ups. Your pilots agreed to relaxed scope, not Comair pilots, ASA, or Mesba pilots. Only your group can solve this probelm and your group will profit or suffer from the result (or lack there of) of your solution.
You want to leave ALPA because its poorly run, bloated, or not cost affective, fine. Just remember ALPA is an association of unions, with your fellow airline pilots. True, some ALPA groups fly under your colors, but again, they did not create themselves, you and your fellow pilots at DAL and NWA let these companies be. As an independent, you will flight the fight alone. Good luck and God speed!
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