Delta Pilots Association - Page 238 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#2371

Carl Spackler , 11-09-2010 05:05 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

ACL,

That all makes sense... except for the fact that you cannot know for certain what the outcome (consequences) are of these "chess moves" you are talking about. There is an awful lot of opinion in what you write. And you make it sound like it's all a foregone conclusion. Too much faith in your own predictions can have some pretty bad consequences too.

I'd rather see us define our objective (hopefully that would be restoration of our profession) and then make sure every move we make is centered around that. A ship without a stated destination, wandering aimlessly, is not likely to get us where we want to go.

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This!!

Carl

#2372

DAL 88 Driver , 11-09-2010 05:09 PM

At home on the maddog!

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It is their problem, and we gave them the option on how to allocate our line item in the future with a yes vote. But we have all been though this many times.

No question we screwed up with our yes votes. But there comes a time to recognize mistakes and correct them going forward. If we don't advocate that our allocation gets put back to where it was, then who will? And if ALPA won't do this, then I think we're going to have to find someone else who will.

#2373

Carl Spackler , 11-09-2010 05:12 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

There are always multiple moves for each situation just like in chess. You know that. It is better to scenario them out than to just fight on one issue without knowing the effects/consequences of it.

Everything but history is an opinion. Common now, we all know that.

You're problem is that you use these perceived outcomes as a reason to stay paralyzed. Can't actually DO anything in your world because of unintended consequences 8 moves later on the chess board.

On second thought, there is one thing you can actually DO. Surrender.

Carl

#2374

Carl Spackler , 11-09-2010 05:14 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

DAL88,

We all want restoration. We all want a industry that sustain it too. There are certain things that need to happen for both of those to occur.

Yes. Surrender monkeys need to stop surrendering. You up for it?

Carl

#2375

Carl Spackler , 11-09-2010 05:19 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

And I'll repeat (with some emphasis in bold): I'd rather see us define our objective (hopefully that would be restoration of our profession) and then make sure every move we make is centered around that. A ship without a stated destination, wandering aimlessly, is not likely to get us where we want to go.

Scenario it out all you want (as we should). But without a clear and compelling objective, it is not likely to yield results. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

You are of course exactly correct here 88. The problem is that you are actually answering the very questions that you raise. The fact that ALPA is NOT doing this, means they know they cannot REVEAL their clearly defined objectives to us. My rhetorical question is: Why not?

Carl

#2376

Carl Spackler , 11-09-2010 05:35 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

This industry has always been very cyclical and unpredictable. If you look at the entire history, cumulatively it has lost more than it has made. There are huge amounts of money involved and there are many ways to allocate it. We had our portion of the allocation reduced by about HALF. Let the bean counters worry about how they're going to make that right... it should be their problem, not ours.

Once again, you are spot on. Management's use of the Non Disclosure Agreement and praise of union officials who agree with them are big reasons that we no longer have a balanced relationship. Once management has successfully co-opted our own union leaders with these tools, we really have nobody on our side of the negotiating table.

If we had a real trade union, we would say to management: "This is what we need, or we will very reluctantly have to shut it down. Now be good little managers and make it happen." Instead, we have a string of DALPA guys ready to tell me how unevolved I am and run straight to management to apologize for the views of the rank and file neanderthal.

Carl

#2377

acl65pilot , 11-09-2010 06:36 PM

Happy to be here

Carl;
I am not going to even bother responding to your quips. I just believe in different methods than you.

DAL 88, there are some ppl running that have list the void of communications of which you speak as a major problem. I also agree that the communication and overall direction need to be restated to the group. What I do not want is rhetoric just to hear something though.

#2378

DAL 88 Driver , 11-09-2010 06:44 PM

At home on the maddog!

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Absolutely. Say what you mean and mean what you say! No rhetoric without substance needed.

I hope we get that "overall direction" stated soon (not restated because it has never been stated in the first place). This is vitally important IMO, and that first new Chairman's Letter better be focused on restoration if ALPA is to regain my support.

#2379

tsquare , 11-09-2010 06:54 PM

No longer cares

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

What is restoration? Not being a wise ass... I just don't know what that means.

#2380

DAL 88 Driver , 11-09-2010 07:10 PM

At home on the maddog!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

What is restoration? Not being a wise ass... I just don't know what that means.

The exact details will certainly vary from one person to the next. But, as I see it, the general concept is getting this profession back to approximately the same level of compensation, working conditions, and benefits it has typically enjoyed.

With the huge hole in which we find ourselves, that is going to be a tall order. But I'm not aware of any organization that ever accomplished something significant and difficult without 1) setting its goal, 2) creating objectives, 3) designing strategies to achieve the goal, and 4) getting everyone on board and pulling in the same direction. We haven't even done step #1. And if ALPA won't do it, then I think we are going to have to find someone else who will.