Delta Pilots Association
03-06-2011, 07:11 AM
#4582
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Captn;
Simple a trade unionist and a trade union should have the goal of representing the entire trade, not just part of the spectrum. If you want to call piloting a trade, then it should be the goal of the trade's union to represent all of those employed in that trade. Ergo, ALPA has tried and is continuing to try to get all pilots engaged in the trade of piloting in to ALPA.
Trust me dealing with the issues between a mainline carrier and a regional counterpart and better dealt with inside of that "trade union" than from a challenge at the table with management. I have stated this ad nausem. It is the law of unintended consequence. I much prefer the sausage making that occurs at ALPA that to deal with it at the table with the company, where we would need to go to a court of law to get it settled. You have more certainty in the current process, and as a result your exclusivity as the sole bargaining agent here at DAL is under less risk of getting challenged.
Having a bunch of independent unions that are loosely tied though CAPA is not the way to go. Look long term and look at issues like Foreign ownership. Be honest and realize that the PAC arm of ALPA is the only "trade" affiliate that has a snow balls chance of dealing with this. Implode ALPA and then standby and watch. These independents will not seem as favorable as you think they are.
Simple a trade unionist and a trade union should have the goal of representing the entire trade, not just part of the spectrum. If you want to call piloting a trade, then it should be the goal of the trade's union to represent all of those employed in that trade. Ergo, ALPA has tried and is continuing to try to get all pilots engaged in the trade of piloting in to ALPA.
Trust me dealing with the issues between a mainline carrier and a regional counterpart and better dealt with inside of that "trade union" than from a challenge at the table with management. I have stated this ad nausem. It is the law of unintended consequence. I much prefer the sausage making that occurs at ALPA that to deal with it at the table with the company, where we would need to go to a court of law to get it settled. You have more certainty in the current process, and as a result your exclusivity as the sole bargaining agent here at DAL is under less risk of getting challenged.
Having a bunch of independent unions that are loosely tied though CAPA is not the way to go. Look long term and look at issues like Foreign ownership. Be honest and realize that the PAC arm of ALPA is the only "trade" affiliate that has a snow balls chance of dealing with this. Implode ALPA and then standby and watch. These independents will not seem as favorable as you think they are.
Wow.. you really believe all that, don't you? Instead, now we have a bunch of independent.. (except fot the fact that they all support the fatasses in DC) unions loosely tied through alpa.. I fail to see a difference. Step back from the punch bowl a little.
03-06-2011, 07:16 AM
#4583
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Reroute
Someone committed to representing the interests of all members of a trade. That stands in stark contrast to the DPA's effort to fracture the piloting profession.
ALPA's a trade union, the DPA'ers do not advocate trade unionism, they want to pull up the ladder on pilots they deem unworthy, and fracture the voice of the piloting profession. Instead of focussing efforts on the vast majority of issues we agree on, the DPA'ers choose to divide us.
ALPA's a trade union, the DPA'ers do not advocate trade unionism, they want to pull up the ladder on pilots they deem unworthy, and fracture the voice of the piloting profession. Instead of focussing efforts on the vast majority of issues we agree on, the DPA'ers choose to divide us.
It's interesting that you see DPA as attempting to fracture the piloting profession while many see it as an attempt to unify the DELTA pilots to fight for DELTA pilot's interests. I am a Delta pilot, and I don't think that fighting for Pinnacle or ASA or Skywest or _______ (no offense to any of those guys there) is necessarily in our best interest.
03-06-2011, 08:18 AM
#4584
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,322
Originally Posted by tsquare
I don't think that fighting for Pinnacle or ASA or Skywest or _______ (no offense to any of those guys there) is necessarily in our best interest.
03-06-2011, 10:48 AM
#4585
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Reroute
I've heard from reliable sources that several pilots have asked that DPA return their cards, but the unelected regime at DPA refuses.
Carl
03-06-2011, 11:06 AM
#4586
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,322
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You're lying Reroute. Pure and simple. I'd ask you for proof, but I know you don't have any. Liars never do.
Carl
Carl
03-06-2011, 11:11 AM
#4587
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Reroute
The DPA is not up to the task and neither is the USAPA attorney they hired.
As far as the attorney who also did work for USAPA, you need to be able to think critically. USAPA wanted to decertify ALPA. They hired the same law firm that DPA is using now. That law firm won and ALPA was decertified. This law firm wins. ALPA loses, and loses continuously. Most recently, the ALPA "crack legal team" lost in their attempt to bust their own in house union. As a result of that ill conceived strategy and subsequent loss in court, we ALPA members will have our dues money taken to pay off the legal judgment.
And this is what you hold up as a legal standard? Oh of course you do...you're Reroute. ALPA apologist extraordinaire.
Carl
03-06-2011, 04:42 PM
#4588
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
DPA will consist of all Delta pilots...thus by definition, we will all be up to the task.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
As far as the attorney who also did work for USAPA, you need to be able to think critically.
Like when they helped drive AMFA off a cliff?
Like when they made PFAA the proud independent union they are today?
Like when APA kicked them to the curb?
Like when they got USAPA that awesome contract?
If you are going to be "critical", maybe you should start with the stooges at Seham.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
USAPA wanted to decertify ALPA.
Think "critically", and it'll come to you...
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
They hired the same law firm that DPA is using now. That law firm won and ALPA was decertified. This law firm wins.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
ALPA loses, and loses continuously.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Most recently, the ALPA "crack legal team" lost in their attempt to bust their own in house union. As a result of that ill conceived strategy and subsequent loss in court, we ALPA members will have our dues money taken to pay off the legal judgment.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
ALPA apologist extraordinaire.
Keep building that unity!
03-06-2011, 05:01 PM
#4589
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Reroute
Absolutely I can say the same, but I'm just surprised by the lack of backbone demonstrated by DPA.
Originally Posted by Reroute
Where's their crack legal team demanding access, why aren't they standing outside the employee parking lot handing out flyers, why aren't there comm reps in every base.
Carl
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