Delta Pilots Association
03-10-2011 | 06:09 PM
#4681
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Heyas,
I love it when "unity" is trotted out.
It is nothing but a bludgeon to get people to go along with a weak leadership with a slight majority.
Go against the status quo, and you are causing dissent. Speak up with an opinion, and you are being divisive. Offer up alternative courses of action, and you not only dis-loyal, but part of the "lunatic fringe".
A strong or well respected leadership would have no issues with informed dissent or a healthy discourse of opinion. A healthy leadership would have NO problems posting what they are doing, and the cost of doing so. A healthy structure would have a constant turnover of people because they love flying more than polishing a chair. A healthy leadership would not only encourage a variety of viewpoints, but would DEMAND it.
Yet we are faced with polling (done with outsourced labor...hello sweet irony...) who's sole function seems to be pimping pilots about alternative representation instead of making the changes the pilot group has already demanded, which, had anyone been listening, would have obviated the need for the polling.
Of course, the usual suspects are, well, suspected, so why not point out how that mean, old, terrible NWALPA was full of all kinds of dysfunction... There certainly were food fights, that much is certain. But in all my time there I never saw anyone crank up a card drive for alternate representation, or even CONSIDER IT.
Yet here we are, not 2 years into the merger, and there is a good number of people willing to organize such a drive here.
I'm not a DPA supporter, but I sure told the polling people I was. Let'em sweat.
Nu
I love it when "unity" is trotted out.
It is nothing but a bludgeon to get people to go along with a weak leadership with a slight majority.
Go against the status quo, and you are causing dissent. Speak up with an opinion, and you are being divisive. Offer up alternative courses of action, and you not only dis-loyal, but part of the "lunatic fringe".
A strong or well respected leadership would have no issues with informed dissent or a healthy discourse of opinion. A healthy leadership would have NO problems posting what they are doing, and the cost of doing so. A healthy structure would have a constant turnover of people because they love flying more than polishing a chair. A healthy leadership would not only encourage a variety of viewpoints, but would DEMAND it.
Yet we are faced with polling (done with outsourced labor...hello sweet irony...) who's sole function seems to be pimping pilots about alternative representation instead of making the changes the pilot group has already demanded, which, had anyone been listening, would have obviated the need for the polling.
Of course, the usual suspects are, well, suspected, so why not point out how that mean, old, terrible NWALPA was full of all kinds of dysfunction... There certainly were food fights, that much is certain. But in all my time there I never saw anyone crank up a card drive for alternate representation, or even CONSIDER IT.
Yet here we are, not 2 years into the merger, and there is a good number of people willing to organize such a drive here.
I'm not a DPA supporter, but I sure told the polling people I was. Let'em sweat.
Nu
Carl
03-10-2011 | 06:13 PM
#4682
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
VERY interesting that you bring that up.
I would argue that ALPA simply picked the "winners".
What if it HAD been retroactive? Would that have been any less fair than letting guys hang out in the wind based on a single date? Guys who are 60 the day before the cutoff are less safe than the guy born two days later 5 years down the road?
Or would it have been better to avoid the windfall situation altogether by simply saying that anyone hired AFTER this point would be allowed to go to 65.
I wonder how thrilled the current winners would have been with either of those scenarios. I'm guessing their support would not have been quite so rabid.
Nu
I would argue that ALPA simply picked the "winners".
What if it HAD been retroactive? Would that have been any less fair than letting guys hang out in the wind based on a single date? Guys who are 60 the day before the cutoff are less safe than the guy born two days later 5 years down the road?
Or would it have been better to avoid the windfall situation altogether by simply saying that anyone hired AFTER this point would be allowed to go to 65.
I wonder how thrilled the current winners would have been with either of those scenarios. I'm guessing their support would not have been quite so rabid.
Nu
03-10-2011 | 06:48 PM
#4683
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
You crossed a picket line of fellow NWA employees. Members of an independent union.
Who crossed the ALPA picket line in 1998?
Those are just facts. You can ignore them, or quibble them into a manageable mush you expect others to swallow - but the simple truth is ALPA was successful and the independent unions weren't...right there where you worked.
You crossed.
Deal with it however you choose, but don't EVER tell another Delta pilot that they don't "get it"! Pre-merger Delta pilots have never crossed a picket line. You have. On your property.
Get it?
03-10-2011 | 08:20 PM
#4685
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Ok, The red book and green book guys got along great. The SEA and DTW MEC got along great. There were never any observers or reporters or whatever watching each side. It was all one huge happy family.
Somehow for Dalpa being so wrong they managed to produce consistently overall better contracts then NWA. Think about why!
Somehow for Dalpa being so wrong they managed to produce consistently overall better contracts then NWA. Think about why!
OO! OO! OO! Can I guess? Was it because we patterned up our contracts after them?
03-11-2011 | 02:43 AM
#4688
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 784
Likes: 0
From: Still in one
Nice quibble.
You crossed a picket line of fellow NWA employees. Members of an independent union.
Who crossed the ALPA picket line in 1998?
Those are just facts. You can ignore them, or quibble them into a manageable mush you expect others to swallow - but the simple truth is ALPA was successful and the independent unions weren't...right there where you worked.
Wrong! ALPA told you that you could honor the picket line and would not be subject to discipline. You had the opportunity to honor the picket line, but you would not have been paid for the trip.
You crossed.
Deal with it however you choose, but don't EVER tell another Delta pilot that they don't "get it"! Pre-merger Delta pilots have never crossed a picket line. You have. On your property.
Get it?
You crossed a picket line of fellow NWA employees. Members of an independent union.
Who crossed the ALPA picket line in 1998?
Those are just facts. You can ignore them, or quibble them into a manageable mush you expect others to swallow - but the simple truth is ALPA was successful and the independent unions weren't...right there where you worked.
Wrong! ALPA told you that you could honor the picket line and would not be subject to discipline. You had the opportunity to honor the picket line, but you would not have been paid for the trip.
You crossed.
Deal with it however you choose, but don't EVER tell another Delta pilot that they don't "get it"! Pre-merger Delta pilots have never crossed a picket line. You have. On your property.
Get it?
Your Tough Guy talk is pretty thin from a group that (to the best of my knowledge) has never had a strike on the property, and never even turned down a TA
.
Last edited by TANSTAAFL; 03-11-2011 at 04:11 AM.
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