sailingfun

Delta has no plans for a 100 seat jet so I think the issue is moot. They always act like they want a 100 seat jet around contract time but thats happened now for 20 years since the DC9's were retired with no replacement. Last 100 seat purchase was in 1983 with last delivery in 1985. The jets announced in the fall will all be large narrow bodies. Nothing smaller then a A320 or 737-800. AvWeek reports that Airbus has a shortage of A320 orders in the 2014 to 17 time frame and may be willing to give out huge discounts for orders then. Same time frame we want a bunch of jets.

forgot to bid

You're probably right sailing but what I wonder is do you think if they did theyd knock on the door over at DALPA and say "you know... how can we make this work... Makes more sense if those jets, are, you know, over there..."

Fwiw, I don't think DALPA would ever say yes. Just curious if they would try to outsource it at all?

sailingfun

I don't think they would. The cost advantage would simply not be great enough for the loss of control and customer service. Had they really wanted it they would have rammed it through the bankruptcy court. I have heard them time after time say they can operate a 150 seat jet for almost the same cost as a 100 seat jet so why buy the smaller aircraft.
You might see it in their opener but if they do I suspect it would be as a throwaway item they can toss out later.

gloopy

To which we counter SWA scope parity is all we want. If they want to split the difference we can negotiate how massive the premium for that might be to allow them to continue with 50% of our current outsourcing. Probably worth around a 30% pay bump over and above SWA rates plus several premiums for larger planes as well as other premiums previously mentioned. Now if they squeal that they can't afford to run an airline with 400/hr top pilot pay, thats OK, just give us the full SWA scope, SWA pay (plus more proportionately for larger planes), significant work rule improvement, a massive (40%+) vacation daily credit bump, reform the insane use it or lose it sick time debacle and some other basic improvements and we're good to go.

Remember that the NMB LOVES existing parity with a profitable peer.

DAL 88 Driver

I like the way you think! Gloopy for MEC Chairman!

Carl Spackler

OUT-FREAKING-STANDING post! Spot on gloopy. But are our DALPA guys pit bulls or poodles?

Carl

sailingfun

The NMB is also smart enough to understand that SW management has never wanted RJ's and never made any effort to get them into a contract outsourced. They are not going to put much if any weight on it relative to a Delta contract. The next SW contract however you might see their management make a shift on that stand as a need for feed becomes more important as they morph more into a hub and spoke airline.

Ferd149

And you can only feed with n RJ? You haven't been going in and out of SLC the last couple months. Us, full RJs. USAir and Southwest full full sized airliners. Talk about lost revenue.

I'm only being partly sarcastic

Carl Spackler

The subterfuge comes from setting this website up so that it hijacks people to it. Typing in: transformalpa and you get jacked to transformdpa. It's not illegal, it's just another example of thuggery. If you have the facts on your side, just set up your website and put your facts out. Don't hijack people to your website when they are trying to get to another. Can you at least agree with that?

This pilot group won't be divided. That is yet another scare tactic put forth by ALPA types. Everyone I personally know will get behind ALPA if the DPA push loses, and will get behind DPA if ALPA loses. Anyone who says it will harm unity is really saying their heart is with their respective organization...instead of with the PILOTS of Delta. For those few hard liners, I have nothing to say.

Management ploy is indeed a hyper-cynical point of view. It's not supported by any facts whatsoever. If it was a management ploy, management wouldn't be working so hard to keep any reference to DPA off the property. That alone should tell you something.

Carl

Carl Spackler

This is a fundamental confusion. DPA is not claiming to have any power yet. DPA has simply put forth a mission statement, then asks for you to sign a card if you agree.

Theoretically, this would be possible. But it would take many years, with ALPA national screaming bloody murder. Then when you take over the MEC, guess what?: You're still stuck with ALPA national around your neck deciding on your finances and your access to expertise. And you're still stuck with negotiating your scope language with the regionals. It is for these reasons that nobody within DPA is interested in trying to use their members as a vehicle to change ALPA. ALPA cannot be changed. ALPA can ONLY be decertified.

That's just plain wrong. Many competent people have tried their heart out attempting to reform ALPA. But ALPA still does things like trying to bust unions and refusing representation to their own members in the hopes of gaining a much larger group of new members. It doesn't take long for our many competent members to realize that ALPA will not change. In fact, ALPA is getting worse. I believe it was the main reason they lost the vote with JetBlue.

ALPA has lost its way. ALPA has lost any moral high ground it used to occupy. For an old fart like me with 32 years in ALPA, it's a heartbreak to see. But I've learned to see reality for what it is, not what I wish reality was.

Carl