By the way, I've got a starter list of things that I'd like to see done to make me think about being an ALPA National supporter:

1. All (53,000) members of ALPA can vote for the President of the Union. Every 4 years. Direct vote.

2. No two airlines can share the same paint scheme and if an airline has a holdings company with pilots flying for more than one airline under the same seniority list then their paint scheme must be the same. No two airlines can share a name, as in ASA and Comair cannot operate as Delta Connection, they operate as ASA and Comair and the word Delta cannot be used. Lobby the DOT and Congress for it as a safety and consumer protection issue.

3. Pilots can vote for their MEC Chairman.

4. ALPA's tenure at any airline is limited to 8 years and subject to renewal by a majority vote of the pilots.

5. Leave the AFL-CIO.

6. Outlaw thick Prater style mustaches.

 

That works both ways too. A vocal and active minority certainly could wield vastly disproportionate influence over an apathetic do nothing majority. However to be fair its disingenuous to say DPA is flaccid because they don't have that level of active unity when everyone knows the majority that haven't signed on to the DPA aren't active rabid anti-DPAers either.

3400 cards is a big deal and worthy of attention from national, but its also fair to say that said attention will be proportional to the actual level of activism and vocality that the sum total of DPA supporters and sympathizers alike apply to the pressure points within the system either way.

3400 guys is more than enough to move mountains, but only if they make it happen. Sending in a card or voting after the fact won't always cut it. Look at the pension fiasco in '04ish. With or without 51% DPA cards, what many want can be accomplished, as long as the tenacious ferocity is there and maintained, but guys have to stay very active.

A significant minority of active Delta pilots sailed off into the sunset with full lump sump payouts slashing and burning everyone who came before them in their little C2K high water mark based "run on the bank" and punched out like 9-11 never happened at the expense of all pilots before and after. While there is arguably little doubt over the long term sustainability of that style of pension, especially at those high water levels, had a more fair solution to all pilots been worked towards, the outcome didn't have to be as all or nothing as it ended up. But that shows the power of a couple thousand guys who are passionately "in it to win it" over a numerical majority.

 

At first I was but then

 

You need to take a look at pension law. A union contract or company policy can't overide federal law on pensions. You can't take or change a earned and accrued pension benefit outside of the Chapter 11 process. The union could not legally block pilots from taking the lump sum or reduce the amount. What the union was however able to do was save the majority of most pilots pensions via some very smart concepts in the chapter 11 process. While the lump sums played a part in the pension meltdown a greater factor was the huge increase in the FAE of most pilots and the market meltdowns.

 

You will see that number double the next day when ALPA drops the ball (Scope, Pay, R-Jobs, QOL, ect.) for our upcoming contract. Its all about timing and DPA better be ready for the flood gates to open soon.




[QUOTE=forgot to bid;1039157]There's only 3,400 pilots that have joined the DPA. I say "only" because it's not a majority and I'm sure ALPA would claim it as a minority.

To say the DPA could takeover the MEC is to also say any minority could take over the union.

And it begs the question, is that what is going on right now?

 

Well, sure. That's how representative government works. If a minority can take over the Republican Party, a minority can certainly take over a union.

 

You have it in US government but you also have a checks and balances in place in that you can elect two local representatives in your district and your state and the President. There you get 3 shots at having a say, 4 if you count voting for both Senators. What do we really get with year end and year out representation with ALPA, 1 vote?

Now to draw a parallel to Washington D.C. Look at 2006, a party campaigned completely different than it intended to run knowing the important part was winning the majority then the new freshman class would be brought in line and the entrenched and established power people would take control. So the freshman were either knowingly or unwittingly played under the guise of some cause but in reality the cause was reestablishing power for a group within the party that could never win an election outright.

2010, a party could barely get out of the way of a grassroots no name wave. The party, run by inside the beltway appeasers, is excited to be back in power, thinks the freshman will get in line and were shocked they stood firm. In fact, everyone was shocked. That wave is a little more mad now and chances are the freshman will be ever more embolden seeing as how those in charge thought they'd tote an insider DC line instead of a constituent line. Insiders are very unhappy. Outsiders are getting ever more perturbed.

Two situations here that I think are similar to what happens in LEC elections. You get a flood of emails from people you don't know saying vote for me, I am a scope hawk and love pay raises and so forth. Nobody says ALPA National saeculum primum, temper your expectations and I hope you're ready to give something up for a 15% over 5 year raise of which only 5% is guaranteed money.

So it's hard to figure out who is telling the truth and who when they get to work within the group will be more fighters like the 2010 freshman and less pawns like the 2008 freshman.

You're actually lucky if you know someone and believed in them enough to vote for them but if they don't win, then what? Who is in? What are they going to do in our equivalent to inside the beltway? Were they insiders from the beginning? Since its mostly behind the doors how do you know what they're really actually doing and saying? And when the time comes that you don't like where the leadership is taking the union you're supposed to recall a rep... that may or may not be good for you and hope at the same time everyone else does the same. It's a lot of layers and I really don't think any union ever set it up any other way because it truly protects the insiders. Hence, why not have the DPA work within the ALPA system? Because you're asking to be defeated in the bureaucracy and NDAs when you could win in the open and white sheet the whole thing.

Now if it were me, this is what I would want to see in a pilot union:

1. For the guy in charge of where the union is headed. Everyone answers to him except the LEC Reps. Fire him and you fire everyone he hired and they're all sent back to hell... also known as the line. But this allows for unambiguous leadership from 1 person and that person is directly accountable to you.

2. And for the LEC Rep that represents your base, seat and type of flying (domestic or international category). So as an ATL M88 B, I'd vote for an ATL Domestic FO Rep.

With the ability to vote for the top and for your true local rep, you're looking at a system that prevents the majority being run by a small group of entrenched insiders which is inherent in any governing body with their hands on the treasury and communication lines.

 

Ask APA how that worked out for them in the 90s and their attempted strike.

Then, ask a NWA pilot how being affiliated with the AFL-CIO worked for them later in the decade under the same President.

 

I'll take my chances.

It's better than being in an organization that was pledged to the support of Van Jones "Rebuild the Dream" movement with the AFL-CIO President saying saying: “The American Dream is not that a few of us will get to be rich, but that all of us will have a fair portion of the good things in life.”

Count me out of that ****.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f9M3...e_gdata_player

 

FtB;
I have not issue wit the rank and file electing anyone, President, Chairman etc, but impeachment/recall authority, like the US government would reside with the governing body.

Also, your base has four reps, that is four changes!

As for AFL-CIO, republican or democrat, you are labor like it or not. Em the facts. They too need a little house cleaning, most organizations have lost there way.