Delta Pilots Association
10-14-2010 | 06:31 AM
#1111
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
When these guys who make 150 an hour continue to be replaced by pilots who make a third of that but fly aircraft, less than a third in size, you need more than 3 times that amount in RJ's and RJ pilots. ALPA sees that, despite the fact that you don't.
ALPA wants to be on the winning side. They see the majors as a slowly declining entity, and regionals as the future of domestic air travel. They've clearly made their choice...and I've made mine.
Carl
10-14-2010 | 06:36 AM
#1112
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
No kidding. What I think Carl is missing though, is that this is ALPA with Prater, the guy that got defeated. Also the guy that brought us Age 65, and the guy that's trying to get us 10 hours flight time per day. I know it's conventional "wisdom" around these parts that LM is just going a management stooge, and will just do it bigger and better. But maybe, just maybe, the LM that was Chairman as this MEC led us through BK, the JV's and the merger isn't quite the idiotic boot-licker some suggest. Obviously, he's not as smart as us here on APC, but maybe, just maybe, he gets a chance to run the union now.
So maybe, just maybe, we focus on trying to send a message to our reps about the direction we want from National on the 500/1,500 hour discussion, and the 10-hour block limit on FTDT regs, and the commuting language in that NPRM. I know it might detract from our APC duties, but maybe we're supposed to, you know, give guidance to our reps, and give a chance to work to this representational system we're not even intelligent nough... to use because we're too busy whining about the fact it doesn't work.
So maybe, just maybe, we focus on trying to send a message to our reps about the direction we want from National on the 500/1,500 hour discussion, and the 10-hour block limit on FTDT regs, and the commuting language in that NPRM. I know it might detract from our APC duties, but maybe we're supposed to, you know, give guidance to our reps, and give a chance to work to this representational system we're not even intelligent nough... to use because we're too busy whining about the fact it doesn't work.
Nice going Private Pyle!
Carl
10-14-2010 | 06:42 AM
#1113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 0
Despite giving mother Delta a joint contract on a silver platter that included a ridiculous amount of 70+ seat RJ's, many of us MD 88 drivers are STILL paid almost exactly what our AMR peers make after all of our raises. Many Delta pilots that I fly with and know, feel that we left some low hanging fruit on the tree with the Joint Contract. Yes, a majority of the Delta pilots voted for the JC, there are however many that feel DALPA had leverage because of mngt's need to get the merger done and we gave that away.
There is a group of FO's that after a 5 year furlough came back to see ALPA back the age 65 rule. That alone is enough for me to at least take a look at other options when it comes to our representation. Now throw in ALPA's backing of the 500 hr rule, it's a no brainer imo, our best interest are not being represented. After what many Delta pilots have been through I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone that many of us would consider making a change.
There is a group of FO's that after a 5 year furlough came back to see ALPA back the age 65 rule. That alone is enough for me to at least take a look at other options when it comes to our representation. Now throw in ALPA's backing of the 500 hr rule, it's a no brainer imo, our best interest are not being represented. After what many Delta pilots have been through I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone that many of us would consider making a change.
That is what happened when we merged with Western, that is what happened when NW merged with Republic, and that is what happened in all the other mergers so far. So the only leverage that we had in this merger is leverage that we created out of thin air. Management had the right to tell us to stay in our old contract, give us no stock, and then merge anyway. It would have slowed down the process, but it would have happened with us or without us. So it is pretty funny that you claim we passed up leverage when we totally created every ounce of our leverage from nothing.
What do you think would have happened if ALPA did not get involved in the age 65 legislation? You do know that the original legislation gave recently retired pilots the right to come back to their airline with their original seniority number, right? What would that have done to you and your buddies?
So go ahead and consider your other options. I am really at the point where I would like to see the nuts take over the nuthouse and then watch as they crash spectacularly, just like they did over at the APA. Maybe you think it will help your career to have your negotiations sidelined for four years while these guys thump their chests and bang their heads on brick walls. Every one of the crack pot theories that the web board warriors espouse here has been tried in the past and they all fail. Negotiations are a business transaction and not a male organ measuring contest. Navigating through a complicated business transaction takes experience, hard work, and tremendous stress. Shouting, posturing, and demagoguery will only get you a trip to the parking lot, where the NMB will wait until you are ready to complete a business transaction. But go ahead, try it out, I am sure it will work this time.
10-14-2010 | 06:46 AM
#1114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
10-14-2010 | 06:47 AM
#1115
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
10-14-2010 | 06:48 AM
#1116
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
But I know you know that.
Carl
10-14-2010 | 06:58 AM
#1118
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
That other airline (AMR) is certainly a measuring stick as to where we are at as a pilot group imo. Both of you guys (alfa + Nu) have some valid points to be considered.
Despite giving mother Delta a joint contract on a silver platter that included a ridiculous amount of 70+ seat RJ's, many of us MD 88 drivers are STILL paid almost exactly what our AMR peers make after all of our raises. Many Delta pilots that I fly with and know, feel that we left some low hanging fruit on the tree with the Joint Contract. Yes, a majority of the Delta pilots voted for the JC, there are however many that feel DALPA had leverage because of mngt's need to get the merger done and we gave that away.
There is a group of FO's that after a 5 year furlough came back to see ALPA back the age 65 rule. That alone is enough for me to at least take a look at other options when it comes to our representation. Now throw in ALPA's backing of the 500 hr rule, it's a no brainer imo, our best interest are not being represented. After what many Delta pilots have been through I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone that many of us would consider making a change.
Despite giving mother Delta a joint contract on a silver platter that included a ridiculous amount of 70+ seat RJ's, many of us MD 88 drivers are STILL paid almost exactly what our AMR peers make after all of our raises. Many Delta pilots that I fly with and know, feel that we left some low hanging fruit on the tree with the Joint Contract. Yes, a majority of the Delta pilots voted for the JC, there are however many that feel DALPA had leverage because of mngt's need to get the merger done and we gave that away.
There is a group of FO's that after a 5 year furlough came back to see ALPA back the age 65 rule. That alone is enough for me to at least take a look at other options when it comes to our representation. Now throw in ALPA's backing of the 500 hr rule, it's a no brainer imo, our best interest are not being represented. After what many Delta pilots have been through I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone that many of us would consider making a change.
10-14-2010 | 07:00 AM
#1119
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
10-14-2010 | 07:01 AM
#1120
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
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