Delta Pilots Association
#1071
DAL88;
I have run my own numbers on what restoration would cost. Just wages along for this group are in the One Billion plus range. Remember my post on the Latest and Greatest thread a few weeks ago?
Add in retirement, work rules, vacation, pbs efficiencies etc, and you are looking at 2-3 billion easy. (Before a lump some to catch up pension deficiencies)
I have run my own numbers on what restoration would cost. Just wages along for this group are in the One Billion plus range. Remember my post on the Latest and Greatest thread a few weeks ago?
Add in retirement, work rules, vacation, pbs efficiencies etc, and you are looking at 2-3 billion easy. (Before a lump some to catch up pension deficiencies)
Pension deficiencies??? nonononononononono sorry... ain't payin for that...
#1073
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Good point. I was thinking of the political environment, but jeesh, not declaring bankruptcy does make them a bit of a different animal.
Maybe speaking out school, but, we'd have to scrutinize their capital expenses on the new fleet additions to see how they are allocating costs. They are spending a bunch of money replacing their Douglas fleet. That is something we will also incur at some future date ... unless we outsource it.
Maybe speaking out school, but, we'd have to scrutinize their capital expenses on the new fleet additions to see how they are allocating costs. They are spending a bunch of money replacing their Douglas fleet. That is something we will also incur at some future date ... unless we outsource it.
That leads to problem #2. AMR hit their labor groups on pay during their 2002 non-bankruptcy restructuring, but they did not hit productivity. They have been shrinking for a long time and pilots are upset about not upgrading along with about 2,000 pilots on furlough. It's difficult to get industry leading pay without some productivity changes, otherwise they can't compete. How do you increase productivity without exacerbating the shrinking problem they have now? Tough call there. If you don't compete on productivity, Southwest will come take your flying.
Delta needs to have Airbus or Boeing come up with a compelling product to move away from the MD-80's. They either need to re-engine the 737/A320 or come up with a whole new product. They probably need to beat current fuel economy by 10-20% to get in the game. To prep for that eventuality, Delta is building a cash flow stream to pay off debt and then buy jets with little to no borrowing. Everything I have heard from management shows me that they understand there is no way to further erode scope and they really aren't that happy with their current outsourcing scheme. Getting out of this problem will take just as long as it took to get into it. I know that you won't believe that until you see it, since you are on the junior end of the list, but that's what I have seen. Take it for what it's worth, just another useless opinion on these useless webboards.
#1074
Alfa;
I tend to agree with it. The "hope" is that it goes from this team to the next. That is an unknown, so it is appropriate to think and plan for multiple contingencies.
RA stated that we are done financing jets and I do hope that is the case. I am quite impressed with the purchasing of 90's when quite frankly what is out there still costs a ton an is old technology. It is quite wise to wait for the Next Gen stuff. Paying down debt is the best way to have options. The less debt we have the more avenues we can explore.
I always assumed that by 2020 (current plans) we will see DCI flying back to where it was in the early to mid 90's. If this holds true, we will be looking at a pilot group that may just in fact double in size.
I do understand why people are skeptical though. Recent history has been very hard on the industry and its employees.
I tend to agree with it. The "hope" is that it goes from this team to the next. That is an unknown, so it is appropriate to think and plan for multiple contingencies.
RA stated that we are done financing jets and I do hope that is the case. I am quite impressed with the purchasing of 90's when quite frankly what is out there still costs a ton an is old technology. It is quite wise to wait for the Next Gen stuff. Paying down debt is the best way to have options. The less debt we have the more avenues we can explore.
I always assumed that by 2020 (current plans) we will see DCI flying back to where it was in the early to mid 90's. If this holds true, we will be looking at a pilot group that may just in fact double in size.
I do understand why people are skeptical though. Recent history has been very hard on the industry and its employees.
#1076
Clamp, the NMB is comprised of 3 political appointees, only 2 of which can be from the same party. Since the latest appointee was was put in place by the current administration in 2009, its safe to say that the previous members were appointed by the past administration...which was not exactly labor friendly...has your former regional asked for a release lately?
Yes. They were subsequently "put on ice."
Labor friendly my butt.
#1077
I posted this on the L&G thread, but I should have done it here:
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OK. The man who wrote a lengthy campaign letter and NEVER ONCE MENTIONED SCOPE has just been elected as ALPA's new President.
To the crowd who want to reform ALPA from within...any new thoughts on the subject? Or are we sticking with the vision?
Carl
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OK. The man who wrote a lengthy campaign letter and NEVER ONCE MENTIONED SCOPE has just been elected as ALPA's new President.
To the crowd who want to reform ALPA from within...any new thoughts on the subject? Or are we sticking with the vision?
Carl
#1078
While AMR might have 2,000 on furlough, quite a bit of that was due to their disasterous TWA fiasco. Had everyone on MIL leave or voluntary furlough at DAL decided to come back, I seriously doubt we would have hired, either.
As for not upgrading anyone, I hate to mention it to you, but you need 14-16 years here at the combined DAL on ANY seat to even hold reserve on the DC-9/MD-88. I didn't see whole lot of DC-9/MD-88 activity other than reinstatements, and we still had a pile of people displaced from captain seats.
When all you have to do is take the train in DTW to see large RJs, ALL of which going to former mainline locations, while MD-90s are mysteriously hung up with little or no upgrade activity, and that angst at AMR is going to start to appear elsewhere.
Nu
Last edited by NuGuy; 10-13-2010 at 02:22 PM.
#1080
Whoa there sparky,
While AMR might have 2,000 on furlough, quite a bit of that was due to their disasterous TWA fiasco. Had everyone on MIL leave or voluntary furlough at DAL decided to come back, I seriously doubt we would have hired, either.
As for not upgrading anyone, I hate to mention it to you, but you need 14-16 years here at the combined DAL on ANY seat to even hold reserve on the DC-9/MD-88. I didn't see whole lot of DC-9/MD-88 activity other than reinstatements, and we still had a pile of people displaced from captain seats.
When all you have to do is take the train in DTW to see large RJs, ALL of which going to former mainline locations, while MD-90s are mysteriously hung up with little or no upgrade activity, and that angst at AMR is going to start to appear elsewhere.
Nu
While AMR might have 2,000 on furlough, quite a bit of that was due to their disasterous TWA fiasco. Had everyone on MIL leave or voluntary furlough at DAL decided to come back, I seriously doubt we would have hired, either.
As for not upgrading anyone, I hate to mention it to you, but you need 14-16 years here at the combined DAL on ANY seat to even hold reserve on the DC-9/MD-88. I didn't see whole lot of DC-9/MD-88 activity other than reinstatements, and we still had a pile of people displaced from captain seats.
When all you have to do is take the train in DTW to see large RJs, ALL of which going to former mainline locations, while MD-90s are mysteriously hung up with little or no upgrade activity, and that angst at AMR is going to start to appear elsewhere.
Nu
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