Rogue24

I swear somewhere in history somewhere there was someone that used the recent repression of a population to profit and exploit these people without any real clear goals, just a flush of frustration. I also recall this same thing resulting in the people realizing what was up far too late.

Carl Spackler

Nothing quite as funny as being to by YOU that I don't know what I'm talking about.

The negotiating committee chairman is a line pilot who has attended seminars on negotiations. Same for the vice chairman. When things get really bad right at the end, the only people in the room are the ones that can make the decisions - both sides want the other staff types out.

For you to infer that we already have professional negotiators and our line pilot negotiators are somehow barely part of the process, is just silly. And to say that face to face negotiations are not important only proves you've never had anything to do with them.

Carl

Carl Spackler

What has that access gotten us? Are you happy with the level of governmental damage done to our airlines? Taxes, fees, taking years to declare an impasse, FTDT regs that have us flying more so that we're fatigued less?...should I go on? You call this access?

I hope they don't have an office in DC. Daily face to face meetings isn't access and/or influence...it's pure junketing on both sides. Worthless, and the results speak for themselves regardless of what Prater touts.

Anyone can use our aeromed guys for a fee. Somehow I think they'll also work with DPA for the same fee.

This is a HUGE part of ALPA's problem. Full time lawyers who are nothing more than french poodles who are scared to death of litigation. We should retain a small firm with proven litigations skills.

Same as now...possibly less.

Same as now...possibly less.

Less because we would only need the contingency fund to handle strikes by Delta Air Lines pilots...not the whole industry.

I believe the same thing would happen with any pilot who would contemplate flying struck work for APA, SWAPA, etc. The age of the internet makes being a scab untenable.

The structure will be whatever Delta Air Lines' pilots decide it will be by majority vote.

How do they do that?

Will a meteor hit the nation too? A plague maybe? An assessment to insure against bed bug infestation? Come on man!

State your facts.

I don't believe your mind is open on this despite what you say here. You are an ALPA guy no matter what. Why you are...is my question.

Then DPA won't happen.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Ah yes...the smearing continues.

Carl

Carl Spackler

In one of my first posts, I said the entrenched ALPA apologists would fight this through smearing and personal attack. This is an example for everyone to view. This will only continue. Here's a guy who says "if I were to guess" on the one hand, and then smears on the other. Disgusting.

Another perfect example. This guy knows absolutely nothing of the people involved who are not listed on the corporate documents, but he's perfectly willing to infer the worst to them - even though they may not even exist.

Carl

alfaromeo

At the end game, everyone knows where the deal is, the last few hours are spent working on one or two last issues. In general, the end game will have very few people involved but one of them will be a professional negotiator, I could name him but it is unimportant.

I did not infer that our line pilot negotiators are barely part of the process. I did say that there is an entire team of professionals that work with the negotiating committee throughout the process. When people call for "professional negotiators" I assume that they want pilots involved somehow. When they describe the process of using professional negotiators, they always describe the situation we have now. We have professional negotiators, we have pilots, they are a team. The team is expanded with subject matter experts, analysts, actuaries, it can be a large group.

Lastly, Carl, I have been in the room many times, so yes I do know what it's like.

cactusmike

Sorry for jumping in at the tail end of the thread but...

Look At USAPA for a prime example of how not to set up a union. They are looking to the Teamsters now as a "strategic alliance" because USAPA itself is pretty innefectual. 400 plus grievances outstanding, the same shills that sucked at the FPL teat under the old US Airways have reinvented themselves at USAPA.

Dues at USAPA are higher than in ALPA if you count all the assesments for all the lawsuits and investigations going around. Legal fees for USAPA are most of the budget, legal fees run up suing fellow pilots. There is no adult supervision, you cannot recall the president or other executive members without going through a very convoluted process. Thousands of dollars are spent on frivolous things without anyone being held accountable.

You want problems? Just let the hardliners seize control of your union and see how effective your negotiations become. ALPA isn't pretty but going it alone is not the answer.

The real solution for ALPA is to go back to being an association for the big guys and split the regionals off to a RALPA. You can share the backoffice functions but the organizational chart would be separate.

forgot to bid

Carl, you need to hold a class... on how to multi quote.

Holy cow. That takes me a long time to pull that off.

Parting quote of the night:

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Regan

80ktsClamp

I just can't take you serious when you type broken sentences like this.


Now you're making up terms? Typical.

Yes it would. If you would take a moment and stop blindly supporting alpa at every turn, you would find time to learn how to do multiple quotes.


Typical cliche.



(sorry, Carl! Too easy! )

forgot to bid

All I am saying is I want less corruption, or more opportunity to participate in it.