Delta Pilots Association
09-23-2010, 02:09 PM
#541
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by Coto Pilot
The same talk has been going on at United. You can't have the same union representing the pilots of the mainline and regionals, there interest are diometrically opposed. I think this will eventually be the demise of ALPA.
The DPA cites the “conflict of interest” as a core tenet of their argument to decertify ALPA. They play on the same scapegoats and strike at the same straw men which have resonated with Delta pilots before. But, those straw men and scapegoats never sat at a table with Delta management. Is it really necessary that I remind pilots that WE negotiated our scope and WE ratified those agreements?
To the extent that there has been a conflict of interest raised at National, WE are the 900lb gorilla and ALPA has sided in our favor. In the most basic terms, if WE have always won, why are we running from straw men?
So, the first reason I should vote DPA is because political scapegoats are being used to make scary straw men that I should fear and run away from.
The second reason I should vote DPA is because the support staff in Virginia get paid to darn much (more than I get paid). Because of my petty jealousy, I should forget a one bedroom apartment in downtown DC costs $750,000 and they rely on their UNION CONTRACT to pay those mortgages. So the second reason I should vote DPA is to break a union contract, or find a way to outsource those jobs.
Unfortunately, out of the gate the DPA appears to be playing to the same petty fears and jealousies which have resulted ALPA’s biggest failures. We never need the politics of divisiveness, not now, not ever.
I was prepared to be impressed if DPA talked eloquently about unity, reform and the foundational concepts of unionism. We need that. But, because the DPA fails to have a solid foundation in unionism, it can’t succeed as a union.
I agree with the DPA, ALPA needs reform. I wish they would refrain from what they think are easy political crowd pleasers and get into the real work of how we build bridges across our profession to combat issues like cabotage, pilot certification and code share. I think the reason they have picked the issues they have is apparent, ALPA is the better answer for the issues that matter.
09-23-2010, 02:21 PM
#543
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Until you DO get confirmation of this, you sound like you're smearing on behalf of ALPA. I don't think you are, but you shouldn't post anonymous stuff like this.
Carl
Carl
Not that I'm opposed to any of them serving anywhere that they can help other pilots.
Where has Sailingfun and his crowd been on this issue?
09-23-2010, 03:14 PM
#544
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
So, are we supposed to protect the anonymity of those trying to form a break away union so they can protect their reputation for future runs for office in ALPA if their effort fails?
The only thing I don't want is for people to post data from anonymous sources that they can't name. I think that hurts both sides.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Where has Sailingfun and his crowd been on this issue?
Carl
09-23-2010, 03:28 PM
#545
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Carl,
You are right and I was making an assumption. I figured those three were being set up as proxies for the principles.
You are right and I was making an assumption. I figured those three were being set up as proxies for the principles.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-23-2010 at 03:46 PM.
09-23-2010, 04:23 PM
#546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: bartender
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Anything that destroys unity has the potential to destroy a union. Outsourcing is a poison which has killed many unions who have decided to participate in selling junior member’s jobs. Having drank from the poison, ALPA is at risk.
The DPA cites the “conflict of interest” as a core tenet of their argument to decertify ALPA. They play on the same scapegoats and strike at the same straw men which have resonated with Delta pilots before. But, those straw men and scapegoats never sat at a table with Delta management. Is it really necessary that I remind pilots that WE negotiated our scope and WE ratified those agreements?
To the extent that there has been a conflict of interest raised at National, WE are the 900lb gorilla and ALPA has sided in our favor. In the most basic terms, if WE have always won, why are we running from straw men?
So, the first reason I should vote DPA is because political scapegoats are being used to make scary straw men that I should fear and run away from.
The second reason I should vote DPA is because the support staff in Virginia get paid to darn much (more than I get paid). Because of my petty jealousy, I should forget a one bedroom apartment in downtown DC costs $750,000 and they rely on their UNION CONTRACT to pay those mortgages. So the second reason I should vote DPA is to break a union contract, or find a way to outsource those jobs.
Unfortunately, out of the gate the DPA appears to be playing to the same petty fears and jealousies which have resulted ALPA’s biggest failures. We never need the politics of divisiveness, not now, not ever.
I was prepared to be impressed if DPA talked eloquently about unity, reform and the foundational concepts of unionism. We need that. But, because the DPA fails to have a solid foundation in unionism, it can’t succeed as a union.
I agree with the DPA, ALPA needs reform. I wish they would refrain from what they think are easy political crowd pleasers and get into the real work of how we build bridges across our profession to combat issues like cabotage, pilot certification and code share. I think the reason they have picked the issues they have is apparent, ALPA is the better answer for the issues that matter.
The DPA cites the “conflict of interest” as a core tenet of their argument to decertify ALPA. They play on the same scapegoats and strike at the same straw men which have resonated with Delta pilots before. But, those straw men and scapegoats never sat at a table with Delta management. Is it really necessary that I remind pilots that WE negotiated our scope and WE ratified those agreements?
To the extent that there has been a conflict of interest raised at National, WE are the 900lb gorilla and ALPA has sided in our favor. In the most basic terms, if WE have always won, why are we running from straw men?
So, the first reason I should vote DPA is because political scapegoats are being used to make scary straw men that I should fear and run away from.
The second reason I should vote DPA is because the support staff in Virginia get paid to darn much (more than I get paid). Because of my petty jealousy, I should forget a one bedroom apartment in downtown DC costs $750,000 and they rely on their UNION CONTRACT to pay those mortgages. So the second reason I should vote DPA is to break a union contract, or find a way to outsource those jobs.
Unfortunately, out of the gate the DPA appears to be playing to the same petty fears and jealousies which have resulted ALPA’s biggest failures. We never need the politics of divisiveness, not now, not ever.
I was prepared to be impressed if DPA talked eloquently about unity, reform and the foundational concepts of unionism. We need that. But, because the DPA fails to have a solid foundation in unionism, it can’t succeed as a union.
I agree with the DPA, ALPA needs reform. I wish they would refrain from what they think are easy political crowd pleasers and get into the real work of how we build bridges across our profession to combat issues like cabotage, pilot certification and code share. I think the reason they have picked the issues they have is apparent, ALPA is the better answer for the issues that matter.
You have some great points and give one things to ponder about. However, I think the average line pilot is a little fed up with ALPA national. To me it boils down to one thing: MONEY. It seems as though national is all about self preservation in that it has become an organization that is self serving and about self survival. What does it need to survive??? MONEY How do you get more money??? MORE MEMBERS They have most of the majors and what would happen if they raised dues: they might have to expain why they need more MONEY. But if they get the REGIONAL Guys on board that is more MONEY with no explaination needed. Now we have an organization that represents one group that is in direct conflict of the other in out sourcing of flying decided by management. I do not want to give 1 dollar to any organization that does not have my best interest as their number 1 concern. I do not feel that National has my interest as their #1 priority. It is getting more money. Deep down you know that. I would much rather pay my money to an outfit that is for DAL only because I trust my guys alot more than the Washington crowd. We got some smart guys here and American seems to be ok with their in house. At least this might shape up the guys in Washingotn a little. My card is sent in. Lets have a vote and see who gets to take care of us going forward. I have a feeling that we care more about what happens to us than the guys in Washington that are looking for more Money!
09-23-2010, 04:28 PM
#547
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I am sure glad that the it is the United States of America and not the Independent States of America. Man how fun would defense be if we all were independent states without some guys in Washington that keep asking for more money for this or that.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
09-23-2010, 04:35 PM
#548
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: bartender
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I am sure glad that the it is the United States of America and not the Independent States of America. Man how fun would defense be if we all were independent states without some guys in Washington that keep asking for more money for this or that.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
09-23-2010, 04:49 PM
#549
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,929
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I am sure glad that the it is the United States of America and not the Independent States of America. Man how fun would defense be if we all were independent states without some guys in Washington that keep asking for more money for this or that.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
The response to this issue for our government woes seems to be a party movement not a revolution to break away.
09-23-2010, 04:55 PM
#550
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: bartender
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
We are talking about firing a company and starting up a union. This is not a revolution. It's just business.
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