Delta Pilots Association
09-22-2010 | 01:44 PM
#441
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From: No to large RJs
DAWGS,
Why would ALPA/DPA/APA or any organization expend energy and money to push/lobby for the inevitable side effects of the very same things they willingly voted for, in good times and in bad, including MEMRAT? In other words, if you had the unity, muscle and mindset to do something like that, you (collectively, not you personally) wouldn't have been infected with the mentality that sold the flying to manegement for the express purpose of shopping it around to the lowest outsourced bidder in the first place.
Why would ALPA/DPA/APA or any organization expend energy and money to push/lobby for the inevitable side effects of the very same things they willingly voted for, in good times and in bad, including MEMRAT? In other words, if you had the unity, muscle and mindset to do something like that, you (collectively, not you personally) wouldn't have been infected with the mentality that sold the flying to manegement for the express purpose of shopping it around to the lowest outsourced bidder in the first place.
09-22-2010 | 01:45 PM
#442
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While I agree with what you are saying, I don't agree that anyone anticipated laying off our guys and outsourcing our jobs to the extent that happened after 9-11. Due to the circumstances of the attack, ALPA should have been front and center to coordinate relationships among its members for hiring. Sure you can get hired at the bottom of the payscale and resign your number, come to mind. Botherhood my arse. ALPA should have done much more imho.
09-22-2010 | 01:45 PM
#443
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From: 747-400 Captain
As far as this movement being based on anger, I have to completely agree with ACL. The poor communication at DALPA, combined with an almost universal dislike for Prater and anything that looks remotely like an administration of any kind rigth now, have left the field ripe for anyone old snake-oil salesman to get in.
Enter DPA.
Enter DPA.
Carl
09-22-2010 | 01:51 PM
#444
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Okay, this is hilarious. You tout the "professional negotiators" that DPA is pushing. So we hire professional lawyers who are considered the best labor attorneys in the country and a professional investment banker to help us negotiate and then you whine about their fees.
So what you are looking for are professional negotiators that will work for free. Good luck with that.
So what you are looking for are professional negotiators that will work for free. Good luck with that.
As for the "professional investment banker", are you referring to Athena? If so, I wouldn't want them as an investment advisor and I certainly wouldn't want them negotiating our pilot contract.
09-22-2010 | 01:53 PM
#445
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: A-320/A
Okay, this is hilarious. You tout the "professional negotiators" that DPA is pushing. So we hire professional lawyers who are considered the best labor attorneys in the country and a professional investment banker to help us negotiate and then you whine about their fees.
So what you are looking for are professional negotiators that will work for free. Good luck with that.
So what you are looking for are professional negotiators that will work for free. Good luck with that.
I don't think anybody would be complaining about our esteemed legal representation that we enjoy, if we weren't under a 40% paycut, and still had a pension.....I'm just sayin'....
Chuck
09-22-2010 | 01:55 PM
#446
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
You're making a couple of valid points, and I would support a reform of ALPA in general. In particular, there needs to be a solution to the balance of power with the regional crowd. Evidently, CAPA isn't the answer, since they're not "exclusive" to mainline, and DPA is not very tempting since their first steps have been botched and amateurish so far. The other problem is that it doesn't appear it's anything but a revisit of the recall attempt in C44. We've already been lead by this group, before your time, and we still have "LOA 44", and "Love, Joe K" tattooed on our red a$$es in cigarette burns.
As far as this movement being based on anger, I have to completely agree with ACL. The poor communication at DALPA, combined with an almost universal dislike for Prater and anything that looks remotely like an administration of any kind rigth now, have left the field ripe for anyone old snake-oil salesman to get in.
Enter DPA.
As far as this movement being based on anger, I have to completely agree with ACL. The poor communication at DALPA, combined with an almost universal dislike for Prater and anything that looks remotely like an administration of any kind rigth now, have left the field ripe for anyone old snake-oil salesman to get in.
Enter DPA.
Sink,
I gotta agree with you on all points here.
09-22-2010 | 02:00 PM
#447
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From: No to large RJs
I was honking mad that scope was relaxed and the regionals were allowed to explode. It stifled everyone's career progression. Each Major MEC's bargaining unit and those that voted for it are to blame for these scope changes. (Hindsight is always 20/20 so lets use it) Ch 11 is further to blame. Looking at FAE figures and trying to save them at all costs is to blame. I blame the national lack of unity and a "me" mentality that a name or organizational change will not fix. It has to come from each pilot.
In fact if you look at the domino that started it all, it started with UsAir and now they are not part of ALPA. Quite coincidental.
Scope sales were a band aid that did not last. It has in the end lead to where we are today with a great majority of people placing blame every which way. I look at all of it as lessons learned that better never be repeated. Scope sales did not help me one bit. It sure did not help anyone I know.
I will also state that the regional guys I know want scope tightened at all costs. They hate that they are faced with the possibility that they are stuck.
09-22-2010 | 02:05 PM
#448
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-22-2010 | 02:17 PM
#449
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The question is how much will DPA pay to replace these functions on a pay as you go basis. Why don't you ask your merger committee how much they paid for experts and lawyers during the 5 months of the SLI process. I believe that between the two it was over $600,000 per month. You can hire expert help on a pay as you go basis or you can hire them full time. Hiring them full time and spreading their work out over multiple carriers is probably 1/4 of the cost as pay as you go.
But you can keep bashing the salaries of the people that work for you. I am sure that maybe you can get a job in corporate communications the next time contract talks come around. You tell everyone how a 747 Captain makes over $250,000 a year (pay and benefits) and only works 80 hours a month. Gets free meals on board the aircraft and even gets to sleep going over to Japan. What a bunch of overpaid jet jockeys. That should get you started.
09-22-2010 | 02:20 PM
#450
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Of course it was 40% off the richest contract in labor history that they negotiated in 2001. I don't remember a lot of people saying in 2002-2004 that we should be like SWAPA. For a while our 737 first officers made more than their captains. Same with APA. Just sayin'..........
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