Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
Delta Pilots Association >

Delta Pilots Association

Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Delta Pilots Association

Old 09-22-2010, 04:41 PM
  #461  
At home on the maddog!
 
DAL 88 Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Default

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy View Post
Why do you only pick the 1986 or 2004 rates???

Extrapolate the 1999 rate. See where that gets you. Or better yet, do a long term, historical look since deregulation and see what that trend line looks like. Our rates have nothing to do with LM or ALPA, its called market forces, and the trend is not our friend.
alfaromeo seemed to be justifying the 42% cut by asserting that our C2K rates were too much. What did he call it... "the richest labor contract in history"? I was just adding some perspective to show that the 42% cut was not justified.

I think if you look at history, you will see that the buying power of a major airline pilot has been relatively consistent from the 1960's all the way through the 1990's. Sure, there have been some ups and downs and isolated examples, but nothing like what we saw in the past decade. Deregulation happened about 30 years ago, right? The massive decrease in the value of our profession didn't happen until over 20 years into deregulation. I really don't think you can blame it on that.

Last edited by DAL 88 Driver; 09-22-2010 at 04:52 PM. Reason: clarity
DAL 88 Driver is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:46 PM
  #462  
The Brown Dot +1
 
scambo1's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Default

Originally Posted by alfaromeo View Post
Of course it was 40% off the richest contract in labor history that they negotiated in 2001. I don't remember a lot of people saying in 2002-2004 that we should be like SWAPA. For a while our 737 first officers made more than their captains. Same with APA. Just sayin'..........
----------------
"Labor History?"

Please splain me that
scambo1 is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:46 PM
  #463  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Default

Originally Posted by iceman49 View Post
National seniority list
Nope. Not now, not ever. There are far better ways to address this than a massive, earth shattering windfall for the uber-senior.
gloopy is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:49 PM
  #464  
The Brown Dot +1
 
scambo1's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Default

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
I put up the data in response to a poster who asked about the "rumor" he heard that some administrators at ALPA national make more money than an MD88 FO. I posted the data from the Department of Labor to show it wasn't a rumor.

Carl
--------------
Carl;

To be fair, I think the poster asked about the secretaries' pay being MD88 FO or better.

Administrators are way more important than secretaries, they administer stuff and check for hall passes.

Secretaries don't type, do shorthand or take meeting minutes anymore, they just mess up your calendar in outlook so they shouldn't make as much as MD88FO's.
scambo1 is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:52 PM
  #465  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Pineapple Guy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Default

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
I think if you look at history, you will see that the buying power of a major airline pilot has been relatively consistent from the 1960's all the way through the 1990's.
And I think that statement is absolutely false. The decrease started as soon as the ink was dry on Pub.L. 95-504. As new carriers sprang up, wages of the old carriers started dropping. That trend continues to this day, though I think it is likely bottoming out.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
Sure, there have been some ups and downs and isolated examples, but nothing like what we saw in the past decade. Deregulation happened about 30 years ago, right? The massive decrease in the value of our profession didn't happen until ~20 years into deregulation. I really don't think you can blame it on that.
Again, I think the facts will prove you are wrong.
Pineapple Guy is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:54 PM
  #466  
No longer cares
 
tsquare's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Default

Originally Posted by 1234 View Post
Who exactly negotiated their contracts?
Nobody you or I could afford
tsquare is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:56 PM
  #467  
No longer cares
 
tsquare's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Default

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but what do you think old farts like me have been doing for DECADES? Do you really think your ideas are new? Really?? ALPA has beaten back all resistance...for DECADES! Including your idea of bringing forth resolutions.

Carl
Yup this^^^^^^^^
tsquare is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:00 PM
  #468  
At home on the maddog!
 
DAL 88 Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Default

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy View Post
And I think that statement is absolutely false. The decrease started as soon as the ink was dry on Pub.L. 95-504. As new carriers sprang up, wages of the old carriers started dropping. That trend continues to this day, though I think it is likely bottoming out.



Again, I think the facts will prove you are wrong.
Without going back and doing a lot of research, I can't say for sure. But I do know that our profession has never seen the kind of massive cuts that we saw in the past decade. Maybe, you could graph the buying power of this profession over the past 50 years and show a slightly declining line after deregulation. But then that line falls off a cliff about 7 years ago! Completely unprecedented and definitely not part of a "trend" that results from deregulation.

In other words, I don't think you can use our pay trends since deregulation as justification for the 42% "emergency" pay cut just prior to and during BK and then the lack of any meaningful restoration since exiting BK several years ago.
DAL 88 Driver is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:03 PM
  #469  
No longer cares
 
tsquare's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Default

Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
Check when your own pilots sue its union it needs a lot of defense. Also if one of our guys sued DPA for a DFR how do you think they would fair financially? New association and all.

Not an attack, a serious question.

Again ACL.. this is classic ALPA scare tactics. I don't know if this path is right.. I DO know that the one we are on has no competition, and takes no questions. They get asked now, and all of a sudden the defense of the status quo becomes a game of chicken. the ALPA leader makes more than 3 times any captain on this property. THAT is disgusting.. and guess what.. there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that it will change from within. I haven't sent in a card... yet. I am waiting for more information. It won't take much. Where is mr prater in all this anyway? Wiping caviar from the latest state dinner off of his tux?
tsquare is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:04 PM
  #470  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Pineapple Guy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Default

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
But then that line falls off a cliff about 7 years ago! Completely unprecedented and definitely not part of a "trend" that results from deregulation.
Well, bankruptcy will do that....
Pineapple Guy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
WatchThis!
Major
68
07-13-2008 08:12 AM
757Driver
Mergers and Acquisitions
190
04-19-2008 11:27 AM
WatchThis!
Mergers and Acquisitions
2
04-14-2008 07:25 PM
RockBottom
Major
5
04-13-2006 05:14 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices