Delta Pilots Association
09-22-2010, 08:40 PM
#491
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by scambo1
--------------
Carl;
To be fair, I think the poster asked about the secretaries' pay being MD88 FO or better.
Administrators are way more important than secretaries, they administer stuff and check for hall passes.
Secretaries don't type, do shorthand or take meeting minutes anymore, they just mess up your calendar in outlook so they shouldn't make as much as MD88FO's.
Carl;
To be fair, I think the poster asked about the secretaries' pay being MD88 FO or better.
Administrators are way more important than secretaries, they administer stuff and check for hall passes.
Secretaries don't type, do shorthand or take meeting minutes anymore, they just mess up your calendar in outlook so they shouldn't make as much as MD88FO's.
Carl
09-22-2010, 08:42 PM
#492
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
daaaaaamn. I'm on page 36 where I left this morning at 10am! See what happens when you fly. I'm sure I'll have something to say if I can catch up, sometime around 3am, and it'll be my worst post ever because my brain will by worse than it normall is. 
Therefore, expect an Erin Andrews pic by 3am.
Therefore, expect an Erin Andrews pic by 3am.
09-22-2010, 08:53 PM
#493
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Scoop
Guys,
You can obviously sharp-shoot for areas where ALPA has done very well if you support them, and conversely point out areas where they have done rather poorly if you do not support them.
That will get us nowhere, and I don't see many changing their preconceived opinions on this issue. One thing that I find interesting is the ALPA attacks on any competition.
If ALPA is half as good as they claim to be they should welcome this challenge. This action provides the perfect opportunity for ALPA to go head to head against the potential competition and point out why they deserve to be our union. Let the facts speak for themselves, lets have an open debate followed by a vote.
If ALPA is as good as they think - it will be a slam dunk. On the other hand maybe ALPA will learn something about itself.
Scoop
You can obviously sharp-shoot for areas where ALPA has done very well if you support them, and conversely point out areas where they have done rather poorly if you do not support them.
That will get us nowhere, and I don't see many changing their preconceived opinions on this issue. One thing that I find interesting is the ALPA attacks on any competition.
If ALPA is half as good as they claim to be they should welcome this challenge. This action provides the perfect opportunity for ALPA to go head to head against the potential competition and point out why they deserve to be our union. Let the facts speak for themselves, lets have an open debate followed by a vote.
If ALPA is as good as they think - it will be a slam dunk. On the other hand maybe ALPA will learn something about itself.
Scoop
Wow Scoop!
Carl
09-22-2010, 10:29 PM
#495
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I'm going to say, if Praeter wins ALPA National again, those cards should be flying in.
I'm for DALPA with no ALPA National. I want LEC and MEC elections at DALPA, I want to elect the Chairman. Thats not to say I wouldn't chose LM, I'm just saying I want to chose. I want competition all of the time, political parties give you that, it'd be nice to see parties. You could have a Pro-Company and Anti-Company and Worthless Finger-in-the-Air Moderates party.
If you can't have DALPA wihtout ALPA... then DPA.
Need pull on Capitol Hill, how about when APA, UCAL-PA and DALPA come together on a topic, thats some pull. If not, then ALPA doesn't have any pull anyways.
I'm for DALPA with no ALPA National. I want LEC and MEC elections at DALPA, I want to elect the Chairman. Thats not to say I wouldn't chose LM, I'm just saying I want to chose. I want competition all of the time, political parties give you that, it'd be nice to see parties. You could have a Pro-Company and Anti-Company and Worthless Finger-in-the-Air Moderates party.
If you can't have DALPA wihtout ALPA... then DPA.
Need pull on Capitol Hill, how about when APA, UCAL-PA and DALPA come together on a topic, thats some pull. If not, then ALPA doesn't have any pull anyways.
09-22-2010, 10:44 PM
#496
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by TheManager
Should we open up the HA can of worms while we are at this???
What did the creditors receive on their claims from the HAL bankruptcy...100 cents on the dollar. Their bankruptcy was substantively different than those experienced at DAL, UAL, NWA and Aloha, among others.
HAL's bankruptcy was a sham compared to the rest of the industry, and their rates of return prove it. It does reinforce that individual company economics as well as the overall economy strongly influence pay.
09-22-2010, 11:05 PM
#498
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by slowplay
Sure.
What did the creditors receive on their claims from the HAL bankruptcy...100 cents on the dollar. Their bankruptcy was substantively different than those experienced at DAL, UAL, NWA and Aloha, among others.
HAL's bankruptcy was a sham compared to the rest of the industry, and their rates of return prove it. It does reinforce that individual company economics as well as the overall economy strongly influence pay.
What did the creditors receive on their claims from the HAL bankruptcy...100 cents on the dollar. Their bankruptcy was substantively different than those experienced at DAL, UAL, NWA and Aloha, among others.
HAL's bankruptcy was a sham compared to the rest of the industry, and their rates of return prove it. It does reinforce that individual company economics as well as the overall economy strongly influence pay.
Did they go to the "sham" bankruptcy court and experience the "sham" 1113? Did they seat the "sham" bk judge or just his or her clerk? Did ALPA offer them the "sham" level of support in that process.
Nope. They were under the same legal process as DAL and NWA. Difference is they also had the stones to return their original TA back to the negotiators. They ended up with a deal that was much more palatable than either of ours.
DC=much improvement over ours. Their rates were as well.
What you are offering up here is DALPA revisionist history. How does that saying go? When the legend is repeated enough and becomes fact, print it! Crap, DALPA was spewing this in the lounges during their sell job of 51. Dusting it off again are we slow?
Hawaiian Airlines
Current
401K: yes
401k Matching: up to 19.4%
A/B Fund: 2.40%/none
Other:
Defined benefit plan frozen
Release #10.HAL
January 5, 2010
Hawaiian Pilots Open Voting on Tentative Contract Agreement
HONOLULU – Voting opened today on a proposed new contract for 436 Hawaiian Airlines pilots, as union leaders said they had accomplished all of their goals of fair pay, retirement security and quality of life for the pilot group.
Online voting for the tentative agreement, which was hammered out with the assistance of the National Mediation Board after a final, grueling two-week negotiation session last month, will continue until January 14, said Capt. Eric Sampson, chairman of the HAL Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA).
“When we sat down at the bargaining table in the spring of 2007, we were committed to winning fair but affordable cost-of-living raises, protecting our work rules and stabilizing our members’ retirement plans,” Sampson said. “Thanks to a lot of hard work and the unwavering support of our members, we are now on the verge of completing our three-year journey to an outstanding new contract.”
The five-year, eight-month agreement includes pay raises of up to 20.6 percent over the duration of the contract, plus profit sharing. Company retirement contributions would increase to 19.4 percent per year for pilots whose pensions were frozen and replaced with a defined contribution plan when Hawaiian exited bankruptcy in 2005.
The agreement also allows Hawaiian to acquire or code share with an interisland turboprop feeder carrier, but only if the airline agrees to significant restrictions designed to protect the jobs of HAL’s existing interisland aviators, who fly Boeing 717 jet aircraft.
“This is an industry-leading agreement that will make our members among the best-paid pilots among their peers and give them the major-airline status that is consistent with the world-class airline that they helped create,” Sampson said. “The ALPA leadership unanimously endorses the tentative agreement and we encourage every Hawaiian pilot to vote yes.”
More than 150 Hawaiian pilots have already attended road shows in Honolulu where ALPA negotiators briefed them on the details of the agreement. Additional road shows will be held soon in Honolulu and Seattle.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union, representing more than 53,000 pilots at 37 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
# # #
ALPA Contacts: Capt. Sam Taeu, 808-836-2572, [email protected]
Rusty Ayers, 847-323-9519, [email protected]
Last edited by TheManager; 09-22-2010 at 11:37 PM.
09-23-2010, 02:45 AM
#499
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I also see the same points in the HA contracts as areas that DALPA can can pattern up on. Of course management leaders have stated patterning is dead, but I disagree.
T- I beleive that ALPA is up to the challenge, and if they are not well you will be correct and we will be pilots of DPA all fighting the same fights we have today. If we are going to challenge ALPA it needs to be more than an idea. I personally want to see the structure etc. I know, I know all the cards to is force a debate in many pilots minds, but that is not the case. The cards and 50%+1 will force a vote and if there is no debate it will be a vote on emotions.
IMO emotion may get 30-40% of this pilot group to mail cards in, but to get over 50% the real leader behind this will need to come out, and not at the end but now, and they will have to come out with more than what is currently there. Not saying it will not happen, I am just saying for ALPA to rise to a challenge it needs to be something more than it is.
T- I beleive that ALPA is up to the challenge, and if they are not well you will be correct and we will be pilots of DPA all fighting the same fights we have today. If we are going to challenge ALPA it needs to be more than an idea. I personally want to see the structure etc. I know, I know all the cards to is force a debate in many pilots minds, but that is not the case. The cards and 50%+1 will force a vote and if there is no debate it will be a vote on emotions.
IMO emotion may get 30-40% of this pilot group to mail cards in, but to get over 50% the real leader behind this will need to come out, and not at the end but now, and they will have to come out with more than what is currently there. Not saying it will not happen, I am just saying for ALPA to rise to a challenge it needs to be something more than it is.
09-23-2010, 02:48 AM
#500
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I'm going to say, if Praeter wins ALPA National again, those cards should be flying in.
I'm for DALPA with no ALPA National. I want LEC and MEC elections at DALPA, I want to elect the Chairman. Thats not to say I wouldn't chose LM, I'm just saying I want to chose. I want competition all of the time, political parties give you that, it'd be nice to see parties. You could have a Pro-Company and Anti-Company and Worthless Finger-in-the-Air Moderates party.
If you can't have DALPA wihtout ALPA... then DPA.
Need pull on Capitol Hill, how about when APA, UCAL-PA and DALPA come together on a topic, thats some pull. If not, then ALPA doesn't have any pull anyways.
I'm for DALPA with no ALPA National. I want LEC and MEC elections at DALPA, I want to elect the Chairman. Thats not to say I wouldn't chose LM, I'm just saying I want to chose. I want competition all of the time, political parties give you that, it'd be nice to see parties. You could have a Pro-Company and Anti-Company and Worthless Finger-in-the-Air Moderates party.
If you can't have DALPA wihtout ALPA... then DPA.
Need pull on Capitol Hill, how about when APA, UCAL-PA and DALPA come together on a topic, thats some pull. If not, then ALPA doesn't have any pull anyways.
FTB;
What a nice thumbnail sketch. My guess is that this is the DAL pilot centrist view.
If Prattler gets re-elected, my card is going in too, pretty fair acid test.
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