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Old 10-13-2010, 07:12 AM
  #1061  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
No offense PG, but I hope Carl's right and if the APA can ever make hay, now is the time to do it.
You mean when their company is on track to lose close to a billion dollars this year? Sure, now's the time!
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:36 AM
  #1062  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
I didn't read his post as having anything to do with timing.
My point exactly. What I said only adds to Gloopy's message. Communications can be more effective if clear and timely.

It has to do with setting an appropriate direction for our pilot group and getting us focused on the objective. Don't confuse marketing with leadership. They can be interrelated but they are two different things. In another year or two, it might be the right time to start bringing our message to the public. (Marketing) But it's never too early to have a clearly stated objective and get everyone on board with it, pulling in the same direction. (Leadership)
If you're setting a new direction, you demonstrate it most effectively in conjunction with a change in leadership. I said that a new MEC Chairman being elected would be a great time to inject a more perfect message. New LEC officers are being elected as well, and we need to hear from them. This event creates a natural opportunity for the Delta pilots to be heard. This is useful, because it's best to be pertinent, if you want to be heard. Having some sort of a letter that doesn't relate to anything, or any event, just sends the message we are confused about our purpose.

Your comparison between leadership and marketing misses my point: they are different concepts, but it's useful to understand both. I'm suggesting we need a change in marketing to support the appointment of new leadership.

We both want a more effective message, right?
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:02 AM
  #1063  
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Originally Posted by Sink r8 View Post
My point exactly. What I said only adds to Gloopy's message. Communications can be more effective if clear and timely.



If you're setting a new direction, you demonstrate it most effectively in conjunction with a change in leadership. I said that a new MEC Chairman being elected would be a great time to inject a more perfect message. New LEC officers are being elected as well, and we need to hear from them. This event creates a natural opportunity for the Delta pilots to be heard. This is useful, because it's best to be pertinent, if you want to be heard. Having some sort of a letter that doesn't relate to anything, or any event, just sends the message we are confused about our purpose.

Your comparison between leadership and marketing misses my point: they are different concepts, but it's useful to understand both. I'm suggesting we need a change in marketing to support the appointment of new leadership.

We both want a more effective message, right?
Good. It seems you and I agree on this. I just wanted to make the distinction that we should have been doing this all along. But since we are so close to a change in MEC Chairman (I hope), I agree that this is a good time to shift our focus in a new (more appropriate) direction.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:08 AM
  #1064  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
Good. It seems you and I agree on this. I just wanted to make the distinction that we should have been doing this all along. But since we are so close to a change in MEC Chairman (I hope), I agree that this is a good time to shift our focus in a new (more appropriate) direction.
Agree. Consider the distinction made. I don't think DALPA's communications were lacking when it counted in BK, but the point you and I can agree on is that communications always count. When it comes to connecting with the line pilot, in a way that carries the right balance of optimism and realism, and conveys proper resolve, the communications effort has been a failure.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:28 AM
  #1065  
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Originally Posted by iceman49 View Post
Clamp, the NMB is comprised of 3 political appointees, only 2 of which can be from the same party. Since the latest appointee was was put in place by the current administration in 2009, its safe to say that the previous members were appointed by the past administration...which was not exactly labor friendly...has your former regional asked for a release lately?
The negotiations were put on ice by the NMB who were displeased that we were negotiating outside the NMB (though as directed by them). A few days after being put on ice, our airline purchased Mesaba from Delta with financing from Delta...

Bad faith bargaining... you betcha! NMB ever going to release that pilot group.... not a chance in heck.

What got us put on ice was largely the company coming to the table the last day and stating they wanted to increase our insurance premiums over 400% to add 1% to the 13-year plus seniority 401(k)s....
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:43 AM
  #1066  
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo View Post
You mean when their company is on track to lose close to a billion dollars this year? Sure, now's the time!
Good point. I was thinking of the political environment, but jeesh, not declaring bankruptcy does make them a bit of a different animal.

Maybe speaking out school, but, we'd have to scrutinize their capital expenses on the new fleet additions to see how they are allocating costs. They are spending a bunch of money replacing their Douglas fleet. That is something we will also incur at some future date ... unless we outsource it.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:09 AM
  #1067  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver View Post
Good. It seems you and I agree on this. I just wanted to make the distinction that we should have been doing this all along. But since we are so close to a change in MEC Chairman (I hope), I agree that this is a good time to shift our focus in a new (more appropriate) direction.
DAL88;
As Sink has stated, it is about timing. I do think that no matter who the new Master Chairperson is, the message will change. There are many ppl, myself included that want less secrecy and a more open dialogue. The message needs to be on point though.

I do agree that a percentage or contractual goals do not need to be publicized at this point. I would personally want a mission statement that goes beyond basic restoration.

As for DPA. If ALPA cannot solve these issues with this timely debate DPA will probably get the required support. They also need to come out with more of a plan.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:21 AM
  #1068  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
DAL88;
As Sink has stated, it is about timing. I do think that no matter who the new Master Chairperson is, the message will change. There are many ppl, myself included that want less secrecy and a more open dialogue. The message needs to be on point though.
Yes, less secrecy and a more open dialogue would be good. And I also agree that it is natural for the message to change with the new MEC Chairman. What I think we should be watching closely is HOW exactly the message changes.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
I do agree that a percentage or contractual goals do not need to be publicized at this point. I would personally want a mission statement that goes beyond basic restoration.
I agree that it's too early to state exact contract goals in terms of exact numbers. But you do realize the math that goes along with the concept of basic restoration, right?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
As for DPA. If ALPA cannot solve these issues with this timely debate DPA will probably get the required support. They also need to come out with more of a plan.
Agreed.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:43 AM
  #1069  
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DAL88;
I have run my own numbers on what restoration would cost. Just wages along for this group are in the One Billion plus range. Remember my post on the Latest and Greatest thread a few weeks ago?
Add in retirement, work rules, vacation, pbs efficiencies etc, and you are looking at 2-3 billion easy. (Before a lump some to catch up pension deficiencies)
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:09 AM
  #1070  
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92 View Post
PILOT NEGOTIATIONS

Pilot negotiations
Originally Posted by Superpilot92 View Post
SCOPE NEGOTIATIONS

Scope Negotiations
Pilot Negotiations

Scope Negotiations

Because the computer makes me type 10 characters in order to press the Post Quick Reply I shall write out at least 10 characters even though I have nothing to add or say other than the above quotes from Super on L&G which I think are well done.
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