Sink r8

Seriously? We have people that sue ALPA, from within ALPA, almost on a routine basis, like the RJDC among others. They don't get persecuted. These guys are doing something that is theoretically more noble. I say "theoretically", because we don't know who these guys are, and precisiely what they want, except power. That's not good enough.

If these anger-riders want even a modicum of credibility, thy would at least let us understand who they are. If perceived (and unspecified) threats are enough to deter them, how on earth could they ever be expected to lead us during contract negotiations, when serious dangers lurk, and strikes are used for leverage?

I do agree that a wake-up call for ALPA is good, however. But considering how opaque the politics are, I wonder who would ultimately benefit. I suspect this is about sitting certain candidates on the MEC, and at National, but I sure can't identify who.

When you consider that for every legitmate volunteer trying to do good within a union, there at least one slippery career politician lurking, it's not encouraging.

Sink r8

I didn't like the inherent weakness of their writing, but ALPA's response was structured exactly like Sully's, and exactly like APA's: there is a lot of good there, but the increase of total block hours is not right, and is not supported by the science.

Carl Spackler

You could be right on this, but I think it's getting too far ahead. This is simply a process of decertification. Then it's up to the pilots via an election as to who that strong leader is...not just the people who started the uprising. I think now is too soon.

Carl

acl65pilot

I think what ALPA has learned is what any organization learns, and that is to throw grenades in to a room or decision makes may make a lot of news but it generally will not get you the results you want.

For Carl; that means that ALPA spoke this last week about the rest rules but will do its real work behind the scenes where it truly matters.

Sink r8

Simply a process of decertification? How does that work? We have to turn in cards for the mystery "Tea-Baggers" without knowing their agenda or their identity, in the hopes a strong leader lurks behind the scenes? In other words, sane people would be expected to make a decision without understanding exactly what the alternatives are? Can't happen.

So I agree: it's too early. But why roll out a website and start a decertification process if you're not prepared to reveal your agenda, and go all-out and prevail? How is this going to translate into smart negotiations down the road?

Carl Spackler

Your name calling and pigeon holing is telling. They are not riding anger, they are organizing what many, many pilots already believe. You may not agree, but your belittling reminds me of the criticism that the Tea Party is going through.

I don't believe they are afraid of threats. It's just smart businesss to keep your enemies (ALPA old guard) guessing. It's the message that matters right now, not the people. The pilots will elect the people...nobody will be installing themselves.

I'll bet nobody disagrees that there aren't a huge number of "slippery career politicians" at national.

Carl

Carl Spackler

You need to re-read Sully's response. These were two totally different responses.

Carl

Eric Stratton

I would agree that many fought but unfortunately the majority decided against it.

It's not the acceptance of the job but the continued acceptance of not changing it. Unfortunately they (ALPA and regional pilots) continue to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. Insantiy! Things need to change because this "taking it back guy" is a clown and I couldn't tell you 1 thing that they have done to take it back.

Carl Spackler

You should keep this up ACL. Keep referring to this as "throwing grenades" and "throwing the baby out with the bath water". It only shows the inherent weakness of your argument.

I especially love the part about all the work behind the scenes.

Carl

acl65pilot

Carl; it is not a defense of Prater it is the reality of politics. If he fails on this, I agree there is little hope for ALPA.