Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
Delta Pilots Association >

Delta Pilots Association


Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Delta Pilots Association

Old 09-20-2010, 03:57 PM
  #111  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Default

Originally Posted by JetFlyer06
Good point here, at a minimum this will be a wake up call for ALPA. We did something similar at my previous carrier and ALPA woke up and addressed some of the issues we were having.

Someone asked why the organizers of DPA don't put their names out there, it's because they would most likely receive threats. You'd like to think as professional pilots we would be above this type of behavior but unfortunately that is not necessarily the case (for some individuals).
Seriously? We have people that sue ALPA, from within ALPA, almost on a routine basis, like the RJDC among others. They don't get persecuted. These guys are doing something that is theoretically more noble. I say "theoretically", because we don't know who these guys are, and precisiely what they want, except power. That's not good enough.

If these anger-riders want even a modicum of credibility, thy would at least let us understand who they are. If perceived (and unspecified) threats are enough to deter them, how on earth could they ever be expected to lead us during contract negotiations, when serious dangers lurk, and strikes are used for leverage?

I do agree that a wake-up call for ALPA is good, however. But considering how opaque the politics are, I wonder who would ultimately benefit. I suspect this is about sitting certain candidates on the MEC, and at National, but I sure can't identify who.

When you consider that for every legitmate volunteer trying to do good within a union, there at least one slippery career politician lurking, it's not encouraging.
Sink r8 is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:00 PM
  #112  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Default

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Yes we have. We've congratulated the combination of bureaucrats and industry leaders. That's right, congratulated them.

How is it that Sully can say it so simply, and ALPA can't/won't. You don't fix fatigue by increasing the work day.

Carl
I didn't like the inherent weakness of their writing, but ALPA's response was structured exactly like Sully's, and exactly like APA's: there is a lot of good there, but the increase of total block hours is not right, and is not supported by the science.
Sink r8 is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:01 PM
  #113  
Back on TDY
 
Carl Spackler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Default

Originally Posted by Check Essential
Yup. "Unknowns" will not get enough cards.
This will die a quick death unless the organizers reveal themselves.
It will take courage and thick skin. They will take incredible heat from the "establishment".

But someone will have to step up as leader for DPA to be taken seriously.
Get the right guy(s) and this will take off like a rocketship.
The frustration level with ALPA National is enormous.
You could be right on this, but I think it's getting too far ahead. This is simply a process of decertification. Then it's up to the pilots via an election as to who that strong leader is...not just the people who started the uprising. I think now is too soon.

Carl
Carl Spackler is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:04 PM
  #114  
Happy to be here
 
acl65pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Default

I think what ALPA has learned is what any organization learns, and that is to throw grenades in to a room or decision makes may make a lot of news but it generally will not get you the results you want.

For Carl; that means that ALPA spoke this last week about the rest rules but will do its real work behind the scenes where it truly matters.
acl65pilot is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:06 PM
  #115  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Default

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You could be right on this, but I think it's getting too far ahead. This is simply a process of decertification. Then it's up to the pilots via an election as to who that strong leader is...not just the people who started the uprising. I think now is too soon.

Carl
Simply a process of decertification? How does that work? We have to turn in cards for the mystery "Tea-Baggers" without knowing their agenda or their identity, in the hopes a strong leader lurks behind the scenes? In other words, sane people would be expected to make a decision without understanding exactly what the alternatives are? Can't happen.

So I agree: it's too early. But why roll out a website and start a decertification process if you're not prepared to reveal your agenda, and go all-out and prevail? How is this going to translate into smart negotiations down the road?
Sink r8 is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:10 PM
  #116  
Back on TDY
 
Carl Spackler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Default

Originally Posted by Sink r8
If these anger-riders want even a modicum of credibility, thy would at least let us understand who they are. If perceived (and unspecified) threats are enough to deter them, how on earth could they ever be expected to lead us during contract negotiations, when serious dangers lurk, and strikes are used for leverage?
Your name calling and pigeon holing is telling. They are not riding anger, they are organizing what many, many pilots already believe. You may not agree, but your belittling reminds me of the criticism that the Tea Party is going through.

I don't believe they are afraid of threats. It's just smart businesss to keep your enemies (ALPA old guard) guessing. It's the message that matters right now, not the people. The pilots will elect the people...nobody will be installing themselves.

Originally Posted by Sink r8
When you consider that for every legitmate volunteer trying to do good within a union, there at least one slippery career politician lurking, it's not encouraging.
I'll bet nobody disagrees that there aren't a huge number of "slippery career politicians" at national.

Carl
Carl Spackler is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:11 PM
  #117  
Back on TDY
 
Carl Spackler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Default

Originally Posted by Sink r8
I didn't like the inherent weakness of their writing, but ALPA's response was structured exactly like Sully's, and exactly like APA's: there is a lot of good there, but the increase of total block hours is not right, and is not supported by the science.
You need to re-read Sully's response. These were two totally different responses.

Carl
Carl Spackler is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:12 PM
  #118  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Eric Stratton's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Default

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You say that because you wouldn't know how hard many did fight for them. In the end, we caved from the onslaught of scare tactics. If only no pilots would have ever accepted those starvation wages.

Carl
I would agree that many fought but unfortunately the majority decided against it.

It's not the acceptance of the job but the continued acceptance of not changing it. Unfortunately they (ALPA and regional pilots) continue to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. Insantiy! Things need to change because this "taking it back guy" is a clown and I couldn't tell you 1 thing that they have done to take it back.
Eric Stratton is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:14 PM
  #119  
Back on TDY
 
Carl Spackler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Default

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I think what ALPA has learned is what any organization learns, and that is to throw grenades in to a room or decision makes may make a lot of news but it generally will not get you the results you want.

For Carl; that means that ALPA spoke this last week about the rest rules but will do its real work behind the scenes where it truly matters.
You should keep this up ACL. Keep referring to this as "throwing grenades" and "throwing the baby out with the bath water". It only shows the inherent weakness of your argument.

I especially love the part about all the work behind the scenes.

Carl
Carl Spackler is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:18 PM
  #120  
Happy to be here
 
acl65pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Default

Carl; it is not a defense of Prater it is the reality of politics. If he fails on this, I agree there is little hope for ALPA.
acl65pilot is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
WatchThis!
Major
68
07-13-2008 08:12 AM
757Driver
Mergers and Acquisitions
190
04-19-2008 11:27 AM
WatchThis!
Mergers and Acquisitions
2
04-14-2008 07:25 PM
RockBottom
Major
5
04-13-2006 05:14 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices