1234

Didn't we have just the opportunity to do this with Compass and our own union couldn't even get the issue looked at. The only thing that I remember hearing was "We can't do that flying because we are too expensive". It may have been muttered somewhere, but I never heard someone say "well, this is a difficult situation, but how can we work with the company to recapture that flying".

Carl Spackler

I'll say this again. The fact that ALPA is a bloated and ineffective bureaucracy is the least of their problem in my eyes. Once again, it is the conflict of interest. The conflict between me as a pilot for a major being represented by a national organization that has made the calculation that the future is with the regionals.

Nothing to do with fear and angst. No matter how many times you say that, it won't make it true. You're performing a tried and true tactic that is currently being used by those who slam the Tea Party. Once again, not fear and angst. Once again, it is conflict of interest.

Another mischaracterization. I don't want to sell them out. I want them fired. I know selling out makes the movement sound cowardly and negative. I hope the guys in DPA are at least getting a handle on the talking points.

It would really be nice if we could honestly debate this without the blatant and purposeful slander and mischaracterization. Maybe we can't, but it would be nice.

Carl

1234

That reminds me of the constant claims that "Hi-time flying does not affect staffing" while we had many pilots out on furlough.

tsquare

This is the only thing I am going to respond to in your post because it is the crux of my frustration. No sir they cannot be fixed because of the nature of the bureaucratic animal that the national association has become. THAT is a fact, and one you cannot dispute. You can wave the flag and get all patriotic (metaphorically speaking) but the fact is that the beast now lives to eat. Nothing more. I cannot even begin to imagine the complexities involved in a policy manual rewrite nevermind that the powerful ones would stop at NOTHING to maintain the status quo. Nope same ole same ole.. nothing will change... EVER. The more I write, the more disgusted I become at the whole thing.. I'm going to bed... hopefully I can sleep.

newKnow

I wonder what does a future Delta Pilots Association (DPA) do with the leaders we have elected in the past that is different than what DALPA has done with the leaders we had? My point is that I believe National ALPA and ALPA's problems are people and unless I'm missing something, DPA would have elected the same people they did for DALPA and the results would have largely been the same.

I mean sure, it is obvious that National ALPA has a huge conflict of interest with the RJ drain. But, isn't it up the the individual MEC's to determine the course and priorities of their negotiations when the time comes. Isn't CAL/UAL doing that exact thing right now?

Yes, national ALPA dropped the ball on pensions and age 65 and a few other things. But, we (and I use that word loosely) voted everything else in ourselves and our MEC's allowed it. I think we are our own worst enemy, not some organization. We allow our elections to be focused on popularity contests, not issues. We worry that the more "radical" candidates may be too radical and might bring the company down. We don't participate. And when we try to participate, we are shot down or ignored because we don't "know the right people."

While there are more than a few instances where DALPA did (or, didn't do something) that have occurred over the past few years that have made me more than a little mad, it is important for DPA to explain how they would behave differently if they were in place with the same elected leaders that DALPA had at the time.* If they can't, I don't see why their efforts aren't made towards putting different people in the right positions at DALPA and ALPA National.


New K

* What would DPA have done to save our pensions back in bankruptcy?
* What would DPA have done to keep Age 65 legislation from passing?
* What does DPA do that UAL/CAL MEC's aren't doing now to get rid of rj's?
* What does DPA do to mend the new rest rule proposal?

Carl Spackler

This is exactly what I was referring to in my first posts. Everyone knows BS when they hear it. It just doesn't pass the personal logic test. As this process moves forward, I advocate paying attention to your own personal sense of logic. The guys with something to hide almost always need tortured and twisted logic to get you to understand.

Don't let anyone try to jive you into something that just doesn't seem right to you.

Carl

tsquare

It's not the money... But you do bring up a great point. How on earth can AA and SWA survive without ALPA national? Boggles my mind.

Carl Spackler

Just say over and over again...

Vols 72
Gators 0

Carl

tsquare

So who's the smart one here? Why don't WE use the coattails of ALPA? I'm tired of paying for everybody else's party. My point was that we could write a check for whatever we need. If there is a giant sucking sound at the national coffers, I'd give you pretty good odds that they wouldn't turn any body down. I'll bet they won't turn anybody down NOW.

tsquare

That is classic ALPA response to any questioning of the status quo. "What are you willing to pay?"

I want a leader that represents the needs of DELTA pilots.. NOT Comair... or Republic or even FEDEX or United... Since I believe you used the word (fear) of 55K pilots as a basis for this discussion, I would like for you to explain who exactly is supposed to be afraid of those 55K pilots.... would that be the gubbamint? the same gubbamint that WILL NOT ALLOW us to use the right to strike because we are a de facto national utility? Managements of the individual companies? Really? You want to try that line?

Can I guarantee that a new union would not succumb to the same fate as ALPA? No.. but I sure as hell would have real access to the leadership. Tell ya what.. I will try to call Prater when I get back, and I'll let you know how that works out. If he takes my call, I will eat crow without Tabasco.

But... for what we are paying right now, I know we can do better than we are. Period. That simple. Do I have those numbers? Of course not, but I am willing to open the phone book and start calling.