Delta Pilots Association
09-20-2010, 01:13 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
Originally Posted by iceman49
If you would, please give some example of how we would better use the money. The only thing that management understands is leverage (how much power do we have by ourselves vs what we have now)...will going it alone help us if there is a strike. Not trying to start a food fight, but this discussion seems like what we here from the politicians...we will have fiscal resp, we will get better jobs, we will make the schools better, but when pressed for specifics they fall apart.
Besides, forget the inflatable rat, we could buy super premium sized inflatable sharks with laser beams!
09-20-2010, 01:16 PM
#52
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
T-Scope is important, imo the most important, but an important way to fix scope is with unity. I much prefer to recapture flying with a the help from a regional ALPA MEC who sees the benefit with a possible quid then to fight them and the corporation for said flying.
By not fixing the current mess, and throwing them to the wayside we will gain no points and probably create a few enemies in the process.
I have looked long and hard at this issue. I was very vocal about a possible conflict a few years ago, but after much study, deliberation, and talking with many pilots with many different points of view, I came to the conclusion, that given where this industry is heading, protectionism will work great for a while, but for the long term it will leave us a lot worse off.
IMO what DPA will do is probably protect the big jets, and at some time fail in SJS.
I truly beleive that most majors cannot afford the necessary fleet renewal that they need to partake in. Because of this belief and the continued desire for consolidation that will continue across boarders it is imperative that we as a industry unite and not as separate special interest groups.
I too have no stomach for scope sales and for catering to everyone's needs, but that is what happens when the "leader" of your association is not a visionary, nor leader. I do know that this election will determine the future of ALPA. We need someone that is willing to rock the boat a little and the current incumbent is not my answer.
By not fixing the current mess, and throwing them to the wayside we will gain no points and probably create a few enemies in the process.
I have looked long and hard at this issue. I was very vocal about a possible conflict a few years ago, but after much study, deliberation, and talking with many pilots with many different points of view, I came to the conclusion, that given where this industry is heading, protectionism will work great for a while, but for the long term it will leave us a lot worse off.
IMO what DPA will do is probably protect the big jets, and at some time fail in SJS.
I truly beleive that most majors cannot afford the necessary fleet renewal that they need to partake in. Because of this belief and the continued desire for consolidation that will continue across boarders it is imperative that we as a industry unite and not as separate special interest groups.
I too have no stomach for scope sales and for catering to everyone's needs, but that is what happens when the "leader" of your association is not a visionary, nor leader. I do know that this election will determine the future of ALPA. We need someone that is willing to rock the boat a little and the current incumbent is not my answer.
What scares me about your posts is that you seem to be in favor of our dues money going toward some sort of mythical check valve wrt regional flying. I cannot believe you are serious when in practically the same breath you say that national doesn't negotiate away scope.. it is the majors' union. So again I ask... what is the purpose of Prater and Herndon? The highlighted paragraph above is confusing to me... care to expand?
09-20-2010, 01:18 PM
#53
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by johnso29
The ONLY thing Prater is taking back is his promise to 'take it back'. The guy has done SQUAT in that regards, & next to zilch for everything else. 
All I ask is for him to show up. It's going on the second year??.. and he has yet to be seen. Why?
09-20-2010, 01:22 PM
#54
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
T;
That is not scare tactics, that is my own personal point of view. I look at Republic and see an airline and union that is not bound by ALPA's by-law's trying to weasel their way in to the Star Alliance. I can see SKW doing the same thing in Sky Team if we dump ALPA.
I hope I am wrong, and will happily admit that I am down the road. If I am wrong I am fine with it. I will be pro delta pilot always.
That is not scare tactics, that is my own personal point of view. I look at Republic and see an airline and union that is not bound by ALPA's by-law's trying to weasel their way in to the Star Alliance. I can see SKW doing the same thing in Sky Team if we dump ALPA.
I hope I am wrong, and will happily admit that I am down the road. If I am wrong I am fine with it. I will be pro delta pilot always.
09-20-2010, 01:23 PM
#55
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I look at Republic and see an airline and union that is not bound by ALPA's by-law's trying to weasel their way in to the Star Alliance. I can see SKW doing the same thing in Sky Team if we dump ALPA.
What is it in ALPA's by-laws that keeps a regional from joining an alliance?
Why can't SKW join SkyTeam if the Delta pilots are ALPA, but they can join if we dump ALPA?
Last edited by Check Essential; 09-20-2010 at 01:36 PM.
09-20-2010, 01:37 PM
#56
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Question:
Do you think the best way to solve the unity, and scope issues are to be 1) More divisive and 2) to either throw the regionals out of ALPA or create our own union which will not keep the regional airlines in line?
Do you think the best way to solve the unity, and scope issues are to be 1) More divisive and 2) to either throw the regionals out of ALPA or create our own union which will not keep the regional airlines in line?
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
The regionals within ALPA KNOW they cannot go after our flying or they will lose and lose big time.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
They will lose our financial support and furthermore know that no attack on one of the mainline carriers PWA's/ CBA's within ALPA would be allowed.
Carl
09-20-2010, 01:38 PM
#57
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by MoonShot
Maybe we could get another thread going that would get comments from pilots that are part of a one-pilot group union? How well they like it, advantages vs. disadvantages, etc...? Who all are on their own: AA, SWA, UPS, __?
Carl
09-20-2010, 01:38 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
BTW;
If you want to take back flying, 1) Vote someone in that will do make it part of the proposal, 2) Vote them out if they do not 3) vote them out if they approve it and send it to memrat, and 4) Do not look at the pretty dollar signs when you see the package that has a scope sale timed to it and vote yes.
Each and every time there has been a further relaxation of scope it has been done with a MEMRAT vote.
If you want to take back flying, 1) Vote someone in that will do make it part of the proposal, 2) Vote them out if they do not 3) vote them out if they approve it and send it to memrat, and 4) Do not look at the pretty dollar signs when you see the package that has a scope sale timed to it and vote yes.
Each and every time there has been a further relaxation of scope it has been done with a MEMRAT vote.
1) Age 65, ALPA supported and pilots against.
2)New FTDT rules. ALPA supported and influenced, I think the vast majority are against.
Age 65 should have been fought. New FTDT are not at all about safety. We now will fly 10 hrs. YGTBSM. ALPA opened the door when they proposed 9 hours. Why give them my 2%? Who needs enemies with friends like ALPA? Keep it in house and do what is best for Delta Pilots. Our leaders of an in-house union will also not promote an ALPA national agenda for political reasons or personal aspirations at ALPA national itself. My opinion, which is why I will be a definite supporter of DPA.
Dawgs
09-20-2010, 01:41 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320B
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by chuck416
OK--I concede that point. Mark it up to dyslexia. Instead of 5600, maybe it was 6500. But that only exacerbates the issue. Not trying to start a firefight here. But it seems to me that the fight's already been on now for waay too much of everyone's careers. Steady erosion since Iraq War I, or there abouts. Except for bankruptcy, where it was wholesale slaughter.
Chuck
Chuck
Chuck,
No fire fight here we are on the same side. My cynicism and sarcasm did not quite come through on my post.
We have one backwards for too long and we need to stop. Right now in its present make up and direction ALPA is not working.
Caddis
09-20-2010, 01:43 PM
#60
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Delta Pilots Association - Home
If they want credibility, they need to tell us who they are.
It looks like a perfectly honorable, above-board, by the book attempt at presenting the Delta pilots with a viable alternative to our current representation. The founders have no reason to hide. They are doing us all a badly needed service.
If they want credibility, they need to tell us who they are.
It looks like a perfectly honorable, above-board, by the book attempt at presenting the Delta pilots with a viable alternative to our current representation. The founders have no reason to hide. They are doing us all a badly needed service.
Originally Posted by Check Essential
For this effort to succeed, a trusted leader is going to be required. The Delta pilots aren't going to change unions based on a website.
Originally Posted by Check Essential
As it stands, the Delta pilots are not getting our money's worth out of our dues.
Carl
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