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Old 09-20-2010, 03:18 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
The problem is they say what we want to hear, then get in office and follow through on zero of their promises. That's typical politics IMO, and has been going on for years on all levels. I'm not sure we will ever break that cycle. I think the only thing that will change with a new union is that we will lose all our ground that we have in Washington.
Exactly. I see no upside to a new union whatsoever. I do see value in cleaning up ALPA.

There might be some value to the threat of a new union however. I for one believe Prater is a one-trick poney that has been left to graze in ALPA's field long after he gave his backers what they wanted: Age 65. How/why we're paying him, and suffering his presence still, is beyond me.

I would be all for leveraging this into a national organization that speaks far, far more effectively and aggressively about our issues, and for a sense that our union is proactively trying to advance the profession. As a reactive lobbying group, it's somewhat effective, but only "somehwat". Still, it has the size and mass of an organization that can effectively lobby, which is something we need. So, proper leadership and vision would be a sufficient change.

Personally, I think our MEC has proven capable, and Moak has proven capable. I think the test of our MEC will come in 2012 and before, and I think it should be injected with enough new blood, then given a chance to perform with a great deal of volunteer supervision. I think the time would be ripe for Moak to make a graceful exit, an I think a good test of his skills would be to help him get to replace Prater. He already enjoys greater clout.

I think there is always a danger in these people becoming too comfortable in their relationships. And anyone that can make it to MEC Chairman is probably too ambitious to sit still. For those reasons, I'd like to see an influx of intelligent people at the MEC level, and for Moak to be given the chance to replace Prater. You do your job right, you get promoted. You sit for a term or two at National, you get ousted before you grow tentacles. Simple as that.

I also think one of the great flaws, both at National and our MEC, is poor communications. When we were under the threat of an 1113 motion, those efforts were extremely well calibrated. Since then, Lee's letters are slowly morphing into Harvard Business School-like musings. It's not just Lee's latest prose: the MEC and National Comm efforts in general are also fatally flawed.

Assuming we can identify candidates for LEC elections that are assertive AND smart, I'm all for bringing them in, and for the MEC to put up a replacement Chairman. If we execute on those tasks, which are very, very difficult in and of themselves, we'd have a chance of securing a decent contract in 2012.

C12 is the most important medium-term issue on the Delta Pilot's agenda. If we lose track of that, and give the keys to the kingdom to an unknown entity trying to ride the anti-incumbant wave with no clear agenda... we're done. Our contract negotiations will result in a good old-fashion ball-kicking contest, and we'll have noone else to blame for electing to receive.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:21 PM
  #102  
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While doing a little research for an answer to the aeromedical/legal out sourcing question, I stumbled on this.

CAPA Urges FAA to Change NPRM on Flight and Duty Time | Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations

Has ALPA even publicly responded yet? I know that there has been significant angst among the DALPA members.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:23 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
At the very least- ALPA needs SERIOUS reform. If they do not show valid progress toward that reform after this arising, it's time to go ahead and go with the DPA.

I'll be sending in my card as a shot across the bow.
I think your view is the majority.
Sending in the card does not automatically remove ALPA. It only asks for a vote.

ALPA must change or they will lose the Delta pilots.
(and probably the new United as well)
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:33 PM
  #104  
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If that is what the pilots of Delta choose then so be it. I will full support my fellow delta pilots in their desire, but that does not mean I will not offer a counter view point to the debate.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:33 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
At the very least- ALPA needs SERIOUS reform. If they do not show valid progress toward that reform after this arising, it's time to go ahead and go with the DPA.

I'll be sending in my card as a shot across the bow. I want results, not continued chest pounding.
Good point here, at a minimum this will be a wake up call for ALPA. We did something similar at my previous carrier and ALPA woke up and addressed some of the issues we were having.

Someone asked why the organizers of DPA don't put their names out there, it's because they would most likely receive threats. You'd like to think as professional pilots we would be above this type of behavior but unfortunately that is not necessarily the case (for some individuals).
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:40 PM
  #106  
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Sink, great post. It is time for a change of the guard and a better communications going forward. We need a clear agenda, but as you say giving the keys over to "unknowns" is a little unnerving.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:51 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot

giving the keys over to "unknowns" is a little unnerving.
Yup. "Unknowns" will not get enough cards.
This will die a quick death unless the organizers reveal themselves.
It will take courage and thick skin. They will take incredible heat from the "establishment".

But someone will have to step up as leader for DPA to be taken seriously.
Get the right guy(s) and this will take off like a rocketship.
The frustration level with ALPA National is enormous.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:52 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Sink r8

C12 is the most important medium-term issue on the Delta Pilot's agenda. If we lose track of that, and give the keys to the kingdom to an unknown entity trying to ride the anti-incumbant wave with no clear agenda... we're done. Our contract negotiations will result in a good old-fashion ball-kicking contest, and we'll have noone else to blame for electing to receive.

You are right that C12 is the most important issue on the horizon. About the "no clear agenda" comment. What is DALPA's agenda for C12?
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:53 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Carl; That is easy to say from the seat of a 744.
I didn't start in this seat. After multiple furloughs in the late 70's and early 80's, I really needed a job. American was interviewing for a "B" scale. I cancelled my interview when I found out what a "B" scale meant. It was very painful to make that decision.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Most of these pilot were 1) not educated on the industry as a whole
Baloney. I believe these pilots made a calculation that they would gain jet experience from the regionals, and then be one of the lucky ones to get picked by a major - and hopefully the majors wouldn't collapse from all the lost flying.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
and 2) really had no other option.
There is ALWAYS other options...ALWAYS. Serving the nation, non-scheds and corporate just to name a few.

I've personally walked the walk dude.

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Old 09-20-2010, 03:56 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by TheManager
While doing a little research for an answer to the aeromedical/legal out sourcing question, I stumbled on this.

CAPA Urges FAA to Change NPRM on Flight and Duty Time | Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations

Has ALPA even publicly responded yet? I know that there has been significant angst among the DALPA members.
Yes we have. We've congratulated the combination of bureaucrats and industry leaders. That's right, congratulated them.

How is it that Sully can say it so simply, and ALPA can't/won't. You don't fix fatigue by increasing the work day.

Carl
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