Delta Pilots Association
11-16-2011 | 07:55 AM
#6731
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,166
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From: 737 Capt
Remember your W2 is not your income. If you cite income made at SW you need to use the same base at Delta. My W2 did not include 16,500 to the 401k, 5000 to the 401k catchup and 6000 to the health account. To arrive at a income number for comparison purposes you have to add all that back into the W2 number. For me thats a 26,500 dollar a year addition.
11-16-2011 | 07:58 AM
#6732
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
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There is no way the average pilot credits 87 hours of pay per month.
None.
Show your math. Additionally, if your going to cite ALPA's look back numbers that they base their compensation on, better yet.... show the math.
You, Sailing, lose just as much if not more credibility when you make such reckless and audacious statements as you have... 87 hrs a month!
11-16-2011 | 10:23 AM
#6733
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Remember your W2 is not your income. If you cite income made at SW you need to use the same base at Delta. My W2 did not include 16,500 to the 401k, 5000 to the 401k catchup and 6000 to the health account. To arrive at a income number for comparison purposes you have to add all that back into the W2 number. For me thats a 26,500 dollar a year addition.
Neither did the SWA data. Their average Captain makes over $230K/year and their average F/O makes over $140K/year. As I understand it, that is average W2 data for SWA. If you use our average 12 year MD-88 Captain as a basis for comparison (using 80 hours per month... I just don't buy your 87 hour average), he would need an approximate 45% increase in pay rate to match his counterpart at SWA.
11-16-2011 | 10:46 AM
#6735
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Exactly. I keep using 80 hours for comparison purposes... only because I'm trying to be extra fair. I suspect our average is actually lower and the percentage increase needed to match SWA is more like 50%+.
11-16-2011 | 12:31 PM
#6736
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Extra fair? What does that mean? Wouldn't it be better to say more conservative?
11-16-2011 | 12:39 PM
#6737
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
So thanks for pointing this out. I'll stop trying to be "fair" and just stick to what I really think from now on.
So with that said, let's look at what I think is the true comparison between Delta pilot and SWA pilot W2:
Delta 12 year MD-88 Captain - 75 hours per month at $167/hour = W2 of $150,300.
SWA 12 year Captain - 105 TFP per month at $186.06/hour = W2 of $234,436.
Percentage increase needed to bring the W2 of the Delta MD-88 Captain up to the W2 of the SWA Captain = 56%.
11-16-2011 | 01:58 PM
#6738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
You're right. Not a perfect choice of words. What I'm attempting to convey is that I'm trying to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to the guys who keep saying the average is 87. Kind of like meeting someone halfway. I suspect reality is that a typical line pilot at Delta averages about 75 hours... especially when you average in reserves at the 70 hour reserve guarantee.
So thanks for pointing this out. I'll stop trying to be "fair" and just stick to what I really think from now on.
So with that said, let's look at what I think is the true comparison between Delta pilot and SWA pilot W2:
Delta 12 year MD-88 Captain - 75 hours per month at $167/hour = W2 of $150,300.
SWA 12 year Captain - 105 TFP per month at $186.06/hour = W2 of $234,436.
Percentage increase needed to bring the W2 of the Delta MD-88 Captain up to the W2 of the SWA Captain = 56%.
So thanks for pointing this out. I'll stop trying to be "fair" and just stick to what I really think from now on.
So with that said, let's look at what I think is the true comparison between Delta pilot and SWA pilot W2:
Delta 12 year MD-88 Captain - 75 hours per month at $167/hour = W2 of $150,300.
SWA 12 year Captain - 105 TFP per month at $186.06/hour = W2 of $234,436.
Percentage increase needed to bring the W2 of the Delta MD-88 Captain up to the W2 of the SWA Captain = 56%.
Using 3200 SWA CA's and 776 MD-88 CA's (Nov. Cat list)
DAL DC contribution is 13%(14% Jan. 1).
SWA CA 3200 x $234,436 = $750,195,200
DAL CA 776 x 150,300 x 1.13 = $131,795,064
Once you drop SWA work rules on us, you will lose 12% of the seats due to the "efficiency" that is created.....
So, now you take the "MD-88 payroll" and divide it between 683 pilots.
$131,795,064 / 683 = $192,999
From $192,999 to $234,436 is only a 21% increase.
(with a loss of 93 CA seats).
11-16-2011 | 02:05 PM
#6739
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
That is ALMOST correct.
Using 3200 SWA CA's and 776 MD-88 CA's (Nov. Cat list)
DAL DC contribution is 13%(14% Jan. 1).
SWA CA 3200 x $234,436 = $750,195,200
DAL CA 776 x 150,300 x 1.13 = $131,795,064
Once you drop SWA work rules on us, you will lose 12% of the seats due to the "efficiency" that is created.....
So, now you take the "MD-88 payroll" and divide it between 683 pilots.
$131,795,064 / 683 = $192,999
From $192,999 to $234,436 is only a 21% increase.
(with a loss of 93 CA seats).
Using 3200 SWA CA's and 776 MD-88 CA's (Nov. Cat list)
DAL DC contribution is 13%(14% Jan. 1).
SWA CA 3200 x $234,436 = $750,195,200
DAL CA 776 x 150,300 x 1.13 = $131,795,064
Once you drop SWA work rules on us, you will lose 12% of the seats due to the "efficiency" that is created.....
So, now you take the "MD-88 payroll" and divide it between 683 pilots.
$131,795,064 / 683 = $192,999
From $192,999 to $234,436 is only a 21% increase.
(with a loss of 93 CA seats).
Shiz;
Can you correct that to 12 days a month? What would our min day have to pay to get that to 12 days per month and would we lose any seats in the process?
There are very few domestic narrowbody DAL lineholders who work as few as 12 days per month.
11-16-2011 | 02:26 PM
#6740
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
Also, if you push down to 12 days of flying, the "TFP average" in 88's equation would likely drop, as 105/12 = 8.75 tfp/day, and don't they have roughly a 6.5-7.75 tfp/day average?
(Shoelu or any other SWA guy know the average tfp/day)
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