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Old 08-10-2011 | 10:04 AM
  #5731  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by slowplay
Nice...

Alfa is very convincing. What do you have to offer of substance to the discussion?
I disagree.

Why should pilots be allowed to fly, for instance a widebody CA, a 9 figure airliner around the world and be allowed in their personal life to vote for everything from school board members to the President of the United States but not their MEC Chairman of their pilot union?

I'll put it this way, what could go wrong if pilots could vote for their chairman? What are the negatives? Not talking about the APA either, pros and cons without the pros.
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Old 08-10-2011 | 10:18 AM
  #5732  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by slowplay
Nice...

Alfa is very convincing. What do you have to offer of substance to the discussion?
Btw, could insiders lose their jobs if there were direct elections and if so- wouldn't that mean they just return to the line with the rest of the hobbits?

I mean that's not a bad thing to fly the line all of the time for the rest of their time is it?

Just trying to empower pilots that's all, plain and simple.
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Old 08-10-2011 | 10:52 AM
  #5733  
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
DPA bears some resemblance to the TEA Party grass roots revolution, where entrenched politicians in government refuse to change their ways, giving favors to special interests and lobbyists (management, regionals? Take your pick) at the expense of the individual voters (ALPA Members). Government (ALPA) has become massive, bloated, arrogant and unresponsive...therefore, start from scratch to get back to the constituent's core values of limited government and debt reduction (or scope, pay & work rules). Anybody agree or disagree?
Agree !!!!
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Old 08-10-2011 | 10:57 AM
  #5734  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Btw, could insiders lose their jobs if there were direct elections and if so- wouldn't that mean they just return to the line with the rest of the hobbits?

I mean that's not a bad thing to fly the line all of the time for the rest of their time is it?

Just trying to empower pilots that's all, plain and simple.
If by "insider" you mean committee chairs, then probably yes. Right now, with the exception of two committees, YOUR elected LEC reps do not get to vote on who is a committee chairman. To do so would require a policy manual change and I am guessing that is a 2/3 vote to pass the MEC.

My guess is if that policy manual change were made (doubtful), then you would see several committee chairs change as they would no longer be selected by the MEC chairman.
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:18 AM
  #5735  
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Originally Posted by crewdawg52
Really do wish I could be in ATL now at the meeting, but reserving it in DTW. Hope someone posts good notes after all is said and done.

And I'm doing the same in NYC. I really really wanted to be there and see first hand the inappropriate behavior of the ALPA guys, camcorder in hand and ready to u tube it....

Hopefully some brothers are there and will post a summary.....
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:28 AM
  #5736  
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Originally Posted by FlyingViking
And I'm doing the same in NYC. I really really wanted to be there and see first hand the inappropriate behavior of the ALPA guys, camcorder in hand and ready to u tube it....

Hopefully some brothers are there and will post a summary.....
They were already videotaping it for rebroadcast on the web. Not sure if the press people were taping too. Is it even called taping anymore?
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:35 AM
  #5737  
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Originally Posted by Nosmo King
If by "insider" you mean committee chairs, then probably yes. Right now, with the exception of two committees, YOUR elected LEC reps do not get to vote on who is a committee chairman. To do so would require a policy manual change and I am guessing that is a 2/3 vote to pass the MEC.

My guess is if that policy manual change were made (doubtful), then you would see several committee chairs change as they would no longer be selected by the MEC chairman.
Agree. Word is there is a resolution to do exactly that to be introduced at the MEC meeting, but the powers-that-be would never let that happen.

The DALPA Committee structure is the real power behind the scenes. They massage the information that is presented to the MEC to whatever ends the MEC chair wants (since their job depends on it). They are unelected and chosen by a chair that is twice removed from the pilots-at-large. LEC reps come and go, but some of these guys linger for YEARS and YEARS.

Lots of FPL, overrides and plain getting out of flying the line. Since the FPL data isn't readily avaiable, most of it goes unnoticed. NWALPA also posted the FPL on a month-by-month basis, but then, there you go.

There's just too much at stake, both on a political level, and a personal level, for these folks to allow a fNWA style policy.

Nu
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:37 AM
  #5738  
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Originally Posted by NuGuy
Agree. Word is there is a resolution to do exactly that to be introduced at the MEC meeting, but the powers-that-be would never let that happen.

The DALPA Committee structure is the real power behind the scenes. They massage the information that is presented to the MEC to whatever ends the MEC chair wants (since their job depends on it). They are unelected and chosen by a chair that is twice removed from the pilots-at-large. LEC reps come and go, but some of these guys linger for YEARS and YEARS.

Lots of FPL, overrides and plain getting out of flying the line. Since the FPL isn't readily avaiable, most of it goes unnoticed. NWALPA also posted the FPL on a month-by-month basis, but then, there you go.

There's just too much at stake, both on a political level, and a personal level, for these folks to allow a fNWA style policy.

Nu
Yep... note how many resolutions passed recently have simply been tabled or even shot down in recent months.

And the cards keep rolling into the DPA and ALPA wonders why....
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:42 AM
  #5739  
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Originally Posted by scambo1
And why doesn't the MEC explain this clearly - including "the intent of the contract" because the intent seems quite the opposite to me.

How could the greatest legal labor minds in the known universe have written the contract to read one way, but intend it another?

There is something fishier here than intent and I'm not looking for some conspiracy. If there is a secret handshake going on between the MEC and Mgmt, okay, but dont play the "intent" and "insufficient case law" card, it doesnt fly.
The MEC put out a full page letter explaining all this. I don't have a copy of the letter but it even went into specifics of other agreements and time lines. Post your question on the DALPA forum and I am sure someone will put up a copy.
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Old 08-10-2011 | 11:46 AM
  #5740  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
The MEC put out a full page letter explaining all this. I don't have a copy of the letter but it even went into specifics of other agreements and time lines. Post your question on the DALPA forum and I am sure someone will put up a copy.
The reasoning behind the language is even better. Ready for it? "Because it was just carried over from previous contracts."

The industries finest lawyers hard at work!
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