Delta Pilots Association
08-10-2011 | 04:14 AM
#5701
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Silence + conflict of interest + lawyers say RAH/Frontier can't be fought due to (weak) section 1 language = capitulation on scope.
The recourse is always "recall your rep if you don't like it" but let's be honest, I don't need another salesman I need another store.
And sure blame the DPA for coming out of nowhere and without cause and hoodwinking 25% of the most cretinous pilots in the group, or one could remember the alley cat Mehitable, from the poem Archy and Mehitabel by Don Mariqus, lamenting "what in hell have I done to deserve all of these kittens?"
08-10-2011 | 04:18 AM
#5702
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
From: Dismayed
Great words FTB! My own LEC chairman told me that we couldn't fight it because there wasn't case law to support it. Considering he's from one of the firebrand LECs, this was bad news. ALPA has lost credibility with me and of the last 5 Captains I've flown with, 4 wore DPA lanyards.
08-10-2011 | 04:33 AM
#5703
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
DPA is really a simple issue. If you believe that they can in a matter of months put together the organization needed to go into section 6 negotiations and produce a better end product then Dalpa then you should by all means get your card on file and as mentioned in another thread support them with a healthy donation.
Keep in mind however that they need to be able to do the following and quickly.
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed.
3. Put together a large war chest quickly.
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money)
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract.
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group.
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years.
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. In the end the only winner will be the company.
Keep in mind however that they need to be able to do the following and quickly.
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed.
3. Put together a large war chest quickly.
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money)
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract.
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group.
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years.
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. In the end the only winner will be the company.
I'm going to move my response over to the DPA thread.
08-10-2011 | 04:34 AM
#5704
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
DPA is really a simple issue. If you believe that they can in a matter of months put together the organization needed to go into section 6 negotiations and produce a better end product then Dalpa then you should by all means get your card on file and as mentioned in another thread support them with a healthy donation.
Keep in mind however that they need to be able to do the following and quickly.
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB see below
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed. ah, a political base eh? Why would democrat affiliated union need to pressure a board consisting of 2 out of the 3 members who are democrats with those two being the former president of the AFA and the former TWA MEC Chair and ALPA Executive Vice-President? Oh wait, maybe the DPA will need to given the fact we may be ****ing off a ALPA guy?
3. Put together a large war chest quickly. see after the quote
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money) they'll start getting dues, they can do it, there will probably be the supporting cast types that need a job, not an issue
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract. they have people listed in all of those areas
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group. like the types that have wanted to help their fellow pilots but learned quickly that ALPA comes first and thus walked - they'll have an opportunity to serve again, awesomeness
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years. not concerned
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. And ALPA can't come to grips with the fact that RAH = Frontier I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. I'm stunned you'd believe that. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Hire more people, maybe stop giving so much to ALPA National? Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. Okay, give 0 to ALPA National, they have enough money to live without us. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do So you're saying there is a reason to go with them? out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. which is why 3200 pilots have signed on I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. no kidding. In the end the only winner will be the company. DCI is going to win on scope and the company will win on pay in C2012 if we continue on our current path
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB see below
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed. ah, a political base eh? Why would democrat affiliated union need to pressure a board consisting of 2 out of the 3 members who are democrats with those two being the former president of the AFA and the former TWA MEC Chair and ALPA Executive Vice-President? Oh wait, maybe the DPA will need to given the fact we may be ****ing off a ALPA guy?
3. Put together a large war chest quickly. see after the quote
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money) they'll start getting dues, they can do it, there will probably be the supporting cast types that need a job, not an issue
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract. they have people listed in all of those areas
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group. like the types that have wanted to help their fellow pilots but learned quickly that ALPA comes first and thus walked - they'll have an opportunity to serve again, awesomeness
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years. not concerned
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. And ALPA can't come to grips with the fact that RAH = Frontier I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. I'm stunned you'd believe that. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Hire more people, maybe stop giving so much to ALPA National? Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. Okay, give 0 to ALPA National, they have enough money to live without us. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do So you're saying there is a reason to go with them? out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. which is why 3200 pilots have signed on I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. no kidding. In the end the only winner will be the company. DCI is going to win on scope and the company will win on pay in C2012 if we continue on our current path
The war chest thing again - so are you saying ALPA National gets to keep all of the Delta pilots money that has been accumulated in the war chest?
Nobody ever answers that question, does all of that money go to ALPA?
08-10-2011 | 04:40 AM
#5705
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
DPA is really a simple issue. If you believe that they can in a matter of months put together the organization needed to go into section 6 negotiations and produce a better end product then Dalpa then you should by all means get your card on file and as mentioned in another thread support them with a healthy donation.
Keep in mind however that they need to be able to do the following and quickly.
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed.
3. Put together a large war chest quickly.
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money)
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract.
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group.
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years.
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. In the end the only winner will be the company.
Keep in mind however that they need to be able to do the following and quickly.
1. Build a solid relationship with the NMB
2. Establish a political base in DC to apply pressure to the NMB if needed.
3. Put together a large war chest quickly.
4. Hire a strong supporting cast. (see number 3, takes money)
5. Establish a support structure for all other functions the union must handle outside of the contract.
6. Attract and keep the very best and brightest people we have in the pilot group.
7. Provide the means and structure for those people to work under in what will be almost certainly a full time job for the next 3 to 5 years.
From what I have seen so far DPA can't even accomplish there most basic promises in their original mission statement and time line. I don't hold out much hope they can do all of the above and in looking at their planned structure don't see how it can work. Certain jobs in the union for example are beyond full time positions. Part timers are not going to cut it in the coming contract. DPA throws a lot of nice things they are going to do out there but provides no method or real plan on how they are going to accomplish those things. Promises and results are very different things. I divided and unfocused pilot group will never produce strong results. In the end the only winner will be the company.
Sailing;
In general, I think that was a pretty fair and balanced post...
You said "if you believe..."
What I believe is: Age 65, FTDT, Loss of retirements, no scope fight (in fact capitulation), etc. How much did these cost you or me? DPA is cheap in comparison.
DPA is no different than DALPA except ALPA is not included. Delta pilots working for delta pilots.
I do not have rose colored glasses here, there will undoubtedly be some politicians involved who want to play their power grab shenanigans, but we have them already. It will be a flawed organization, we have that already. There will be some best and brightest who step up and maybe new ones too who have become frustrated with the current org.
If the opener isn't strong as he11, what would the DAL pilots have to lose?
What are you afraid of?
08-10-2011 | 04:59 AM
#5707
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,871
Likes: 189
The RAH thing is quite simple. Its legal under our contract. This issue actually had come up and dates all the way back to the early 90's with other feeder agreements. There is not a question on the intent of the contract. We have zero chance to win a arbitration on the issues since it was decided long ago. To effect a change in this situation and I agree its a bad situation the contract has to be changed. The contract does not become amendable until 31 Dec 2012. Put your feelings into the contract survey.
08-10-2011 | 05:03 AM
#5709
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
From: DTW 717A
The RAH thing is quite simple. Its legal under our contract. This issue actually had come up and dates all the way back to the early 90's with other feeder agreements. There is not a question on the intent of the contract. We have zero chance to win a arbitration on the issues since it was decided long ago. To effect a change in this situation and I agree its a bad situation the contract has to be changed. The contract does not become amendable until 31 Dec 2012. Put your feelings into the contract survey.
If the people which voted a person into an office want an agenda followed through, it is the job of the representation to carry out the wishes of the people. If the courts then decide it cannot be done, so be it. The job of the representative is not to tell the constituency that "it simply cannot be pursued".
Both ALPA and DC have gotten this wrong.
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