Originally Posted by Free Bird

That's the biggest reason most guys I fly with consider DPA. It's painfully obvious to most guys that ALPA has conflict of interest.

Originally Posted by Superpilot92

And yet alpa still hasn't and wont ever publish it's stance on scope! It's a conflict of interest and the issue will always be deflected.

Originally Posted by finis72

Maybe I'm forgetful but I don't remember ALPA negotiating 1 contract in 30 plus years.DALPA has negotiated every contract and the scope issues we have we did to ourselves and we've learned a painful lesson.No more! However I don't believe the Detroit Pilot Asspciation is the answer,I think there are hidden agendas and disgruntled pilots who think everything bad in our careers is caused by the bogeyman ALPA.Get real guys.I don't like the way our country is going but I'm not ready to overthrow our government.
Just 1 opinion and 1 vote among 12000 plus pilots.

Originally Posted by crewdawg52

Really do wish I could be in ATL now at the meeting, but reserving it in DTW. Hope someone posts good notes after all is said and done.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I am not afraid of anything. I do however want the best possible contract and quality of life for my family. I personally don't feel DPA can deliver that. If you feel they can then I respect your right to support them.

It would be fair to say that we all want this for our families. In your previous post you stated that if one thinks DPA can deliver in 6 months and be ready for section 6, support them.

I personally don't care about the 6 month urgency issue. I'd rather have this next contract done correctly. The issue is which group is addressing our needs as pilots and will enter negotiations focused on securing those needs.


You mention no scope fight and that is far from the truth. Your focusing on one the RAH issue. They has not been a fight because as I posted in another thread its not what the contracts intent is. This is established by both term sheets, negotiators notes and past practice. This practice goes all the way back to the early 90's. We can't win this issue under this contract so there is no point in wasting time and effort. It would also cause a loss of credibility with the NMB since the issue was decided long ago. The fight on this issue has to be in the next contract. Feel out your survey accordingly.

I understand and respect what you stated here. However, I am of a trust and verify type of person. It would be nice to see the term sheet(s) and notes that support this along with a synopsis of the legal opinion given to the MEC. Lends to good communication. The days of "I have seen the documents that support this but can't disclose any information because of the NDA," don't lend to good communication.


ALPA did not cause 911. ALPA does not control oil prices. ALPA did not aide SW management in procuring 5 billion in fuel hedges that lead to the later meltdown in 04/05 for many airlines. ALPA did not cause the US recession. ALPA did not invade IRAQ the second time. ALPA did not write the Constitution which was going to lead to a very bad court decision. I can go on and on. 2000 to 2010 will be remembered as perhaps the worst decade for workers outside of the great depression. ALPA did not cause it.

It is managements job to repond to all of the above listed events. Their track record spanning several CEOs is debatable. What is not is that the pilots of Delta have given well over a billion dollars a year in concessions, every year, for what will likely be 10 years. DALPA continually points to these events with a victims like mentality while explaining their actions. What the pilots need is a return on our investment and a representative group that is not shy about obtaining that. Question really is:

Which group can do this. This will be the most important contract in our history at Delta. I'd rather have which ever group best represents our will AND will follow through on that will. 6 months and urgency are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by johnso29

FYI, the highest amount of DPA cards per base comes from ATL, not DTW.
Also, WHY did DALPA bring TA's to the table that have been extremely detrimental to the careers of DAL pilots, like one that doesn't have DAL pilots flying 50 seat & higher jets?

Originally Posted by sailingfun

You mention no scope fight and that is far from the truth. Your focusing on one the RAH issue. They has not been a fight because as I posted in another thread its not what the contracts intent is. This is established by both term sheets, negotiators notes and past practice. This practice goes all the way back to the early 90's. We can't win this issue under this contract so there is no point in wasting time and effort.

Originally Posted by slowplay

So how's APA's direct election system workinng out? Go back and read Bate's letter to his pilots, then some of their Domicile reps letters. Then tell me again why you'd want that plan here.

Alfaromeo has written a few times about this subject. You might want to peruse his posts for some background on how your desired method inhibits delivering results to your wallet.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Alfa is not all that convincing slow.

So just say it slow! Say you're against direct elections because insiders will lose their bleeping jobs and the status quo and all the goodies that come with being offline go out the window for everyone inside DALPA.

Just admit it and say it, there's nothing wrong with taking the position of no outside influence to the alpa monarchy.