Delta Pilots Association
08-11-2011, 10:23 AM
#5831
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
Why on earth does it matter why DAL88 left twa whenever he left?
Is the intent of questioning why he even took the job there in some way relevant to current DAL issues? Or is it in some way to discredit the valid points he is making?
Why did any of us take any job? Why did any of us leave that job? Are stepping stone jobs in some way related to current reasoning skills?
Is the intent of questioning why he even took the job there in some way relevant to current DAL issues? Or is it in some way to discredit the valid points he is making?
Why did any of us take any job? Why did any of us leave that job? Are stepping stone jobs in some way related to current reasoning skills?
It's very simple really; they are ALPA and they don't care about anybody but ALPA. Take their FPL away and see how many will show up, then compare that to a DPA meeting....
08-11-2011, 10:23 AM
#5832
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
When this fact was brought up in lounge visits prior to our 51 vote, DALPA/ALPA spin and pressured pushing of 51 went into high gear.
They did everything possible to discourage taking another run at it like Hawaiians pilots did.
08-11-2011, 10:26 AM
#5833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Delta M88 A ATL
Posts: 383
ATLANTA, GA (WABE) - Thousands of Delta Air Lines pilots say they're unhappy with the union representing them. At a meeting Wednesday in Atlanta, some of those pilots said it was time to oust the the Airline Pilots Assocation, or ALPA, in favor of bringing in their own, independent union.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
08-11-2011, 10:32 AM
#5834
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 28
You are right the NMB doesn't care about the meeting. That was my point this meeting was for the DPA to show the other guys that they matter. It's got nothing to do with dudes likes you who are keyboard warriors gusto and all. Unions are about the guys who show up and do things like TC himself. He said he had two years to give to this battle. Your kind started talking about this in 2009. How long can one man support the organization? His tenacity will be remembered like the USAPA guys holding onto, well, holding onto something for years.
You mention LEC meetings one more time in your attempt to equate both things. They are not the same. This was a coming out rally, a pep rally and a show force all in one. It was a chance to shine in from of the camera and in the news. Here we are hear us roar except the video will show a large room with seating for hundreds and a few heads. Weekly reminders and invites to come and enough time to bid around it and it was an empty room. Proof of what? It's hard to get people involved? The pilots apathy of ALPA is so great they can't be bothered to show up to a decertification meeting? Bad location? Wrong day of the week? The same people who come on the boards and attack people for not standing up have the same excuses. I know how to fix it but I don't want to take the time.
If you ask me the DPA used the familiar LEC meeting concept because it does work but it only works when you have something people want to talk about. They knew weeks ago that no on was showing up yet they kept sending out emails saying seating is limited. Everyone probably thought someone else was going so they didn't need to. Hows that going to work out when it comes time for a real vote. 60/40 sound familiar? If anything spending money on a room, equipment and brochures is probably closer to the ALPA way than further apart. I'd also wager a box of donut holes that unlike ALPA none of the DPA stuff was made in a union shop? There's one good way to cut costs, bypass the American Union worker and help him get outsourced. We don't need no stinkin' union print shop!
08-11-2011, 10:34 AM
#5835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
ATLANTA, GA (WABE) - Thousands of Delta Air Lines pilots say they're unhappy with the union representing them. At a meeting Wednesday in Atlanta, some of those pilots said it was time to oust the the Airline Pilots Assocation, or ALPA, in favor of bringing in their own, independent union.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
08-11-2011, 10:37 AM
#5836
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
Was this the highly touted Atlanta road show? Better get them reservations in to make sure you have a seat.
Did the ALPA "thugs" disrupt the proceedings as you predicted?
08-11-2011, 10:44 AM
#5838
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 28
ATLANTA, GA (WABE) - Thousands of Delta Air Lines pilots say they're unhappy with the union representing them. At a meeting Wednesday in Atlanta, some of those pilots said it was time to oust the the Airline Pilots Assocation, or ALPA, in favor of bringing in their own, independent union.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
08-11-2011, 10:51 AM
#5839
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
If the premise of your question is that pilots from different groups within the seniority list have different objectives then by all means yes there are powerful conflicts.
You could argue that LEC reps then shouldn't be chosen just by base and seat but by some other more representative matrix.
Because it could be very dangerous for many pilots if those bargaining are in agreement with their particular constituency, say the negotiators or the powers that be are in the top 5% and they negotiate something extremely beneficial to them at the expense of 95%. Extrapolate that out to something for the top 15% but hurts 85%. Or, say the best and brightest negotiating team sits at 50%, and the 45-55% range gets something that hurts those above and below.
Now let's say the negotiating team is less nefarious than that but the TA offers is still basically the same lopsided result.
I'm not sure but maybe you and I are in more of an agreement than we know.
You could argue that LEC reps then shouldn't be chosen just by base and seat but by some other more representative matrix.
Because it could be very dangerous for many pilots if those bargaining are in agreement with their particular constituency, say the negotiators or the powers that be are in the top 5% and they negotiate something extremely beneficial to them at the expense of 95%. Extrapolate that out to something for the top 15% but hurts 85%. Or, say the best and brightest negotiating team sits at 50%, and the 45-55% range gets something that hurts those above and below.
Now let's say the negotiating team is less nefarious than that but the TA offers is still basically the same lopsided result.
I'm not sure but maybe you and I are in more of an agreement than we know.
Regardless, we agree that there are powerful conflicts of interests which are inherent in union representation. Having a conflict of interests is not justification for splitting the union up, senior v. junior, but rather it means finding governance that respects the will of the bargaining unit as a whole.
Agreed?
08-11-2011, 11:11 AM
#5840
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
When I brought up the point about the conflict of interest between young and old, junior and senior in a previous post you said it was a very weak point since we are all Delta pilots. From your previous post I got the impression that you view conflicts of interests within a pilot group as being of little significance.
Carl
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