Delta Pilots Association
08-11-2011, 11:24 AM
#5841
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Reroute
You are alluding to seniority block representation, as some ALPA pilot groups do, as opposed to base/seat representation as other ALPA pilot groups do. That's really a decision for the Delta pilots to make, perfectly acceptable to ALPA, if they think it would work well for them. However, how will you make sure that pilots in small bases have representation? When a MEM F/O is called into the chief pilots office, will there be a representative in MEM?
Regardless, we agree that there are powerful conflicts of interests which are inherent in union representation. Having a conflict of interests is not justification for splitting the union up, senior v. junior, but rather it means finding governance that respects the will of the bargaining unit as a whole.
Agreed?
Regardless, we agree that there are powerful conflicts of interests which are inherent in union representation. Having a conflict of interests is not justification for splitting the union up, senior v. junior, but rather it means finding governance that respects the will of the bargaining unit as a whole.
Agreed?
What I see you saying is we should bargain as a whole under ALPA National even as separate groups? One voice, one mission blah blah blah.
The answer is no, I don't agree.
If we get SWA scope we've killed DCI. That is not in DCI's best interest. If it's not in DCI's best interest it's not in ALPA Nationals interest. If It's not in ALPA Nationals interest it's not in the interest of anyone at DALPA that matters.
There is no way LM would've gone for SWA scope and killed DCI. Seems to be his #1 mission was ALPA National.
If that had been laid at his feet by the pilots and the company I don't think we'd gotten it.
Same as my divorce analogy with one law firm representing both the husband and the wife. There is really no way that's going to work out well for one of them because no matter how much the firm talks about unity moving forward. They have separate missions.
Our mission is to end outsourcing. I don't think getting rid of outsourcing is DALPA's mission?
Call me a cynic, but DALPA would give the war chest over to ALPA National wouldn't they? So who is their #1 priority, Delta pilots or the ALPA brotherhood?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-11-2011 at 12:18 PM.
08-11-2011, 11:27 AM
#5842
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by scambo1
Why on earth does it matter why DAL88 left twa whenever he left?
Is the intent of questioning why he even took the job there in some way relevant to current DAL issues? Or is it in some way to discredit the valid points he is making?
Why did any of us take any job? Why did any of us leave that job? Are stepping stone jobs in some way related to current reasoning skills?
Is the intent of questioning why he even took the job there in some way relevant to current DAL issues? Or is it in some way to discredit the valid points he is making?
Why did any of us take any job? Why did any of us leave that job? Are stepping stone jobs in some way related to current reasoning skills?
Carl
08-11-2011, 11:31 AM
#5843
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
It didn't. Hence the flowback........ Heard ginseng works good for memory
When did CAL announce they wanted to end the flow through and when did they walk that back a bit?
And June 30, 1998, what's the difference in pilots hired before and after that date? Two hints, ML and ER were in the prior category.
08-11-2011, 11:34 AM
#5844
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
By the way, did I miss it or what racist comment did the DPA guy say?
Now I'm not saying whatever was said was not racist, just want to see it. the idea being promulgated here is that DPA = Racist. Or DPA volunteers = Racists.
So question, does every Delta pilot in Peachtree City beat his wife to an inch of their life? I don't think so.
If its racist I'm sure its an opportunity for the DPA to show they won't tolerate it, let them do their thing.
Now I'm not saying whatever was said was not racist, just want to see it. the idea being promulgated here is that DPA = Racist. Or DPA volunteers = Racists.
So question, does every Delta pilot in Peachtree City beat his wife to an inch of their life? I don't think so.
If its racist I'm sure its an opportunity for the DPA to show they won't tolerate it, let them do their thing.
08-11-2011, 11:39 AM
#5845
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by TheManager
Again. Real easy. Hawaiian did much better after rejecting the first TA . The pilots decided to send their negotiators back to the table depite ALPA's strenuous warnings about rejecting the TA in the 1113 process.
When this fact was brought up in lounge visits prior to our 51 vote, DALPA/ALPA spin and pressured pushing of 51 went into high gear.
They did everything possible to discourage taking another run at it like Hawaiians pilots did.
When this fact was brought up in lounge visits prior to our 51 vote, DALPA/ALPA spin and pressured pushing of 51 went into high gear.
They did everything possible to discourage taking another run at it like Hawaiians pilots did.
Carl
08-11-2011, 11:47 AM
#5846
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by nerd2009
ATLANTA, GA (WABE) - Thousands of Delta Air Lines pilots say they're unhappy with the union representing them. At a meeting Wednesday in Atlanta, some of those pilots said it was time to oust the the Airline Pilots Assocation, or ALPA, in favor of bringing in their own, independent union.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
Some of the reasons pilots want ALPA gone include conflicts of interest, excessive spending, and allowing Delta to outsource jobs to regional carriers, said Tim Caplinger. About a year ago, the Detroit-based pilot started the "Delta Pilots Association." His goal-- get enough grassroots support to assume representation of Delta's 12,000 pilots.
"Delta pilots really do want to be proud of their company. They want to be proud of their representation," Caplinger said. "Currently, we're not proud of our representation."
Before DPA can take control, half of Delta's pilots must sign and submit an authorization card saying they want the change.
So far, Caplinger says 3,300 pilots, or about one quarter, have done so.
"It's already taken a year, and it might take another year. But we're in it for the long haul because it's the right thing to do," he said.
But fellow Delta pilot and spokesman for the current union Buzz Hazzard disagrees that ALPA is neglecting its obligations.
"As a union, [ALPA} can offer Delta pilots what no other union can offer them. That's the strength of a national union and the resources that accompany them," he said.
Hazzard added that previous attempts to bring in a new union have also failed.
Whatever union pilots ultimately decide on, future stakes are high. Delta pilots can start negotiating a new contract in about eight months.
Like Alpa aeromedical??
Sold, and that service now outsourced to ALPA and every other union.
Like Athena Group?
Please.
Like Cohen, S & W. ?
Again, more of a problem and liabilty than an asset. Look at their track record in recent, and not so recent litigation involving ALPA.
Alpa EF&A??
Couldn't just about any investment bank do the same. GS, JPM Chase? Same goes for the Athena "Group". That "Group" has got to be the biggest example of cronyism involving ALPA period.
I'm not fully buying the resources pitch. It's a stretch at best.
08-11-2011, 12:00 PM
#5848
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
By the way, did I miss it or what racist comment did the DPA guy say?
"Beaner is a slang term, widely regarded as derogatory, that refers to people of Mexican descent. The term originates from the prevalence of frijoles pintos and other beans in Mexican food.
According to The Historical Dictionary of American Slang, the word was first seen in print in 1965, although the term has reportedly been in use at least since the 1940s (perhaps having evolved from previous slurs such as "bean-eater" and "bean-bandit" that were in use since as far back as the 1910s.)
Although the word is generally considered pejorative, its usage is not always overtly offensive and can be fairly benign depending on the context (similar to the term "frog" for a French person.)
Though perhaps once considered strictly offensive, it appears that the term may be going through a phase of melioration, where the negative connotation of an ethnic slur is "reclaimed" by those it is directed against and used in a neutral or even positive manner.
Other ethnic slurs based on food include "Curry muncher" (East Indians) and "Frog" (French)."
08-11-2011, 12:03 PM
#5849
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Exactly correct.
Carl
Carl
08-11-2011, 12:16 PM
#5850
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
He used the term "beaners" in a remark (that I think was intended to be humorous and critical) about the announcement of Delta's agreement with AeroMexico. To be honest, I had never seen or heard that term before and it initially flew right over my head... until I started seeing the reaction to it in replies. A quick Google search yielded the following from Wikepedia:
"Beaner is a slang term, widely regarded as derogatory, that refers to people of Mexican descent. The term originates from the prevalence of frijoles pintos and other beans in Mexican food.
According to The Historical Dictionary of American Slang, the word was first seen in print in 1965, although the term has reportedly been in use at least since the 1940s (perhaps having evolved from previous slurs such as "bean-eater" and "bean-bandit" that were in use since as far back as the 1910s.)
Although the word is generally considered pejorative, its usage is not always overtly offensive and can be fairly benign depending on the context (similar to the term "frog" for a French person.)
Though perhaps once considered strictly offensive, it appears that the term may be going through a phase of melioration, where the negative connotation of an ethnic slur is "reclaimed" by those it is directed against and used in a neutral or even positive manner.
Other ethnic slurs based on food include "Curry muncher" (East Indians) and "Frog" (French)."
"Beaner is a slang term, widely regarded as derogatory, that refers to people of Mexican descent. The term originates from the prevalence of frijoles pintos and other beans in Mexican food.
According to The Historical Dictionary of American Slang, the word was first seen in print in 1965, although the term has reportedly been in use at least since the 1940s (perhaps having evolved from previous slurs such as "bean-eater" and "bean-bandit" that were in use since as far back as the 1910s.)
Although the word is generally considered pejorative, its usage is not always overtly offensive and can be fairly benign depending on the context (similar to the term "frog" for a French person.)
Though perhaps once considered strictly offensive, it appears that the term may be going through a phase of melioration, where the negative connotation of an ethnic slur is "reclaimed" by those it is directed against and used in a neutral or even positive manner.
Other ethnic slurs based on food include "Curry muncher" (East Indians) and "Frog" (French)."
Some people are trying a little too hard to be insulted.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
