Thanks. I'm more of a lurker than a poster and I'm way above my daily quota of posts and research efforts, so hopefully others will engage in some productive discussion here and yes challenges to DPA, it's called vetting and it's a good thing.

 

The DALPA forum had the contracts posted back to 1970 showing 24J existed for over 40 years. 40+ years! Now it's an issue? Methinks a red herring.

 

Again, any contract provision is not a problem in and of itself. It's only a problem if/when someone tries to use it as a tool, and someone else is willing to accept its being used as a tool. Those people exist today. They didn't 40 years ago...or even 10 years ago.

Carl

 

Do they have section 1 going back to the 70s?

 

Lifted from the 44 scope article on the DALPA forum -

1948 - 1982 Section 1 was one sentence. ALPA will negotiate all pay, work rules and benefits for all pilots. 1978 happened and it all changed. DAL 1986 Section 1 contract was 3 pages long and allowed 70 seat flying going forward to today. C2K Section 1 increased to 35+ pages.

 

On the DALPA forum they are saying 24J needs to go, even after 40+ years of it being in the DAL contract. You are saying 24J is fine, it's the pilots who are bad???

 

24J is not the issue. 24J allows more robust representation of our pilots. Look at how many committees we have that even places like UAL do not have and you will quickly understand why 24J is a good thing. It allows our pilots more representation and a large Emergency Reserve account that is unmatched. If we did not have 24J our MEC Reserve Account would be zero like UAL's and that money would be being used for the items that 24J is providing.

The company would love to get rid of it, but it has been in there so long, that they know it is not something that would go over well with the majority of the line pilots.

When we need that account and another merger or acquisition will be proof positive why money in this account is more important that the company providing the funding for Committee chair positions.

 

My personal opinion is that it should go. Any item of the contract isn't bad in and of itself, but there are times when people can taint the intent of any item. When that happens, the item needs to be revised/removed. It has evolved into an item that makes certain of our elected and unelected officials identify with the company and its position, rather than what's best for the pilots they represent.

The exact same money from 24J should be sent to pilots as extra pay. Then our dues should increase by that exact same amount. If that happened, union dues would directly cover union work...not money from management. But if that happened, the MEC might have to be more accountable to its members about what it pays its volunteers and officials. As you can see now, DALPA is fully engaged in ensuring we do not see where that money goes.

No.

I don't think you can call some of these guys pilots anymore. Some get 95 hours of pay based on the highest category they can hold, plus a $1,000 per month stipend, plus a union credit card for other expenses, all while never flying the line and being home with their families nearly every day. Pilots don't get that. A lot of the guys making decisions about our QOL do not live under those rules anymore, and the funding that allows them that lifestyle comes from management.

That's a recipe for misrepresentation and corruption.

Carl

 

With the false argument that you are issuing here, that's correct. But nobody should be advocating just the removal of 24J. My post above indicates what the follow-on should be. The dollars would be exactly the same, but the dollars would come directly from union dues...not management. It would not cost the company one additional dollar, nor would they save one additional dollar. It's all about where a union gets its funding.

Carl

 

Note: The political power base is the Committee chair positions. They are compensated with FPL.

FPL can reach 92 hrs per month on the highest equipment one can hold.

Additional stipend of $1,000 or more per month. Paid for effectively by DAL. (Not confirmed, but told by a DPA supporter about debit cards that are loosely accounted for as well. That one is hearsay.)


Therefore,





In order for the pilots to attain a fair and aquitable contract for their families and themselves, they must be unified. Presently, the group is fractured among competing interests. One is going to have to emerge and lead this group effectively. It can be done. It must be done.

Right now, it is DALPA's contest to either win or lose. Presently, DALPA, or to be completely accurate, the commitee structure and leadership, is struggling.

They are driven only by their brazen self interests in pursuit of political survival. They are struggling to perserve that authority. They can not lead and unify if they are only interested in their regime. Introspective thought and change is needed.

This is important:

DALPA and DAL have close relationship that contain rewards. Kind of like rewards that governments provide to other governments. All aid money is dispersed not to alleviate poverty, but to purchase loyalty and influence.

Think about that. Now we all know why FPL is such a third rail political issue. We can not succeed if we are not unifed or have effective leadership. We can not be unifed or led when there is question as to the loyalty and influence of our leadership.

I'd rather pay more dues money and cover FPL (with a monthly accounting) than have DAL in the equation. Think of the impact a change like this would have.

Finally, remember this. Information infrastructure is politics.

The best way to bring down a corrupt dictator or regime... hand out cell phones. Folks, it works the same way here. whoever has the higher ground has the advantage.

Why do you think AMR went public on their websites and in the press with their disengenious proposal to their pilots? Why do you think Alfa and DALPA are here?