Carl Spackler

It doesn't matter what I would have done as much as what I did. Which was: Flight instruct, crappy freight, crappy corporate, slimy non-sched, then major airline. Then furloughed multiple times. Then interview at American for what I learned was the B scale. Turned down American interview. More crappy non-scheds, then NWA.

None of those crappy jobs hurt the majors to which I was aspiring.

Carl

Bucking Bar

Carl,

You have my complete agreement that ALPA needs reforms. Most of the time my posts debate Sailing, Slowplay and Alpha on the reforms I think are needed. But, more now than ever, I am optimistic those reforms are beginning.

Even with its warts, we are better off trying to fix ALPA than to go with an alternative that divides our profession further. It is the best tool available to us.

Sir Fudd,

What you write resonates with a lot of people. I'm a numbers guy who tends to be politically deaf. Until the numbers and the rules hit an objective result, it sounds a lot like the plot for tonight's Glee. I can't make sense of it.

A representational vote will show management exactly how divided we are. If 51% vote for ALPA, our representation will remain the same, but management will know 49% do not support us in our Contract 2012 negotiations.

The timing for this is really poor. But then there is never a good time to weaken your bargaining agent.

shadyops

MEC Officer Election Results
On Saturday January 17, 2009 the eleven Local Executive Councils (LEC’s) of the NWA and DAL Master Executive Councils (MEC’s) met in Orlando to elect the new leadership for the pilots of the merged Delta Air Lines. The newly elected MEC officers and the eleven local councils now make up the new Delta MEC, the governing body for the airline’s 12,424 pilots.

Then who voted Carl, flight attendants?

iceman49

Shady, the vote for the leadership is done by pilots...however it is our elected reps, it is not by popular vote of all line pilots, the same is true for the president of ALPA it is done by the reps...not by popular vote of the line pilots.

RepublicofTexas

You know that these votes have three options

ALPA

DPA

None

Might get part of what you want, but you may also get the largest non-unionized pilot group in the US. Bet that will work real well for 2012. Probably will not happen, but no vote ever has a known outcome.

Carl Spackler

Hypothetical question. If DPA does not get voted in because a majority of pilots think the way you do, what will you think if all the attempts at reform are beaten back by ALPA? Would it be the last straw for you, or will hope always spring eternal?

Carl

Carl Spackler

I truly don't understand how you conflate these two issues. A representational vote doesn't show disunity on our part at all. If ALPA wins, I will continue to push my reps to extract the maximum possible in negotiations even though I voted for DPA. If DPA wins, I would hope you would push the new DPA reps to do the same even though you voted for ALPA.

If anything, the timing is perfect to show management how engaged the rank and file is on these topics...and that weenies need not apply to be reps.

Carl

FlyingViking

Well said... again....

dragon

If we were to change horses going into the C12 negotiations I think that would be a positive for the pilots. The company has a very comfortable relationship with DALPA. If that gets changed, it adds a little bit of uncertainty and the pilots can enter with the completely irrational requests (from management's POV) that many hard liners here want like C2K+ payrates.

Further, it does show we are engaged and it won't be the same ol, same ol.

Check Essential

Bar-
I like your arguments, but Carl is right on that one.
I think its unfair to question the DPA supporters' "patriotism". That was a bit of a cheap shot. They're still loyal Delta pilots even if you don't like their views of what to do about the problems at ALPA National.
Regardless of any union vote, they will be there when it comes time in 2012.