Delta Pilots Association
12-21-2011 | 08:02 AM
#7061
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Ok, let's play this out. DPA somehow motivates 100% of the Delta Pilots to go it alone in the next 3 months (or before openers). It's a pipe dream, I know, but just pretend for discussion.
What's the next step?
DPA walks into negotiations and throws down; "I want full restoration to C2K rates, adjusted for inflation, and we want 5% per year going forward, and we want...(insert list of about 100 other things here).
OK, so Richard picks up the phone and makes a call;
"Hello, NMB? We have these guys here who want to double our operating costs...No, it's not the APA, it's the DPA!"
NMB on other end of phone to the President of the ATA, our own King Ricard,
"Tell them we'll get right back to them...in about 5 years."
OK, then what?
I'm no DALPA cheerleader, I've voted against most of the concessionary T/A's they have brought us, but I've also volunteered (fo'free, no trip drops!) to help out on a lot of committees over the years. The single most frustrating thing for me to deal with is all the other appathetic pilots who can't find the time to stay informed or get involved. The Silent Majority, and the next most frustrating thing is, the RLA.
How is any new bargaining agent going to change those two things?
What's the next step?
DPA walks into negotiations and throws down; "I want full restoration to C2K rates, adjusted for inflation, and we want 5% per year going forward, and we want...(insert list of about 100 other things here).
OK, so Richard picks up the phone and makes a call;
"Hello, NMB? We have these guys here who want to double our operating costs...No, it's not the APA, it's the DPA!"
NMB on other end of phone to the President of the ATA, our own King Ricard,
"Tell them we'll get right back to them...in about 5 years."
OK, then what?
I'm no DALPA cheerleader, I've voted against most of the concessionary T/A's they have brought us, but I've also volunteered (fo'free, no trip drops!) to help out on a lot of committees over the years. The single most frustrating thing for me to deal with is all the other appathetic pilots who can't find the time to stay informed or get involved. The Silent Majority, and the next most frustrating thing is, the RLA.
How is any new bargaining agent going to change those two things?
2 years from today we finally have a TA. It has:
* 10 % year one.
* 3 % for each remaining year for a 5 year deal.
* 5hr min day.
* 1% increase in dc. No Scope changes. Status quo there.
The MEC says: "This is the best we can get! If we don't take it we will get parked for an indefinite amount of time and we will never be allowed to strike. We have no leverage, We strongley recommend you all vote for this and and take the deal on the table."
They follow with, "if you vote this down the neg. comm. will quite and we will be looking at years before we can move on anything again."
Are people irrate or do they hang there head and after a full does of spin and sell and vote for it?
Or, do they re-new cards and send new ones in in record volume?
12-21-2011 | 08:08 AM
#7062
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
T;
From the DPA website:
There is a rumor out there that DPA is seeking to overturn the Seniority List Integration. Is this true?
Absolutely not! That is a rumor being spread by ALPA proponents that is simply ridiculous. The list is permanent and not changeable. Anyone who is suggesting this idea should be challenged to describe a method for this to occur. They won’t be able to. The issue is dead and we are moving forward unified.
From the DPA website:
There is a rumor out there that DPA is seeking to overturn the Seniority List Integration. Is this true?
Absolutely not! That is a rumor being spread by ALPA proponents that is simply ridiculous. The list is permanent and not changeable. Anyone who is suggesting this idea should be challenged to describe a method for this to occur. They won’t be able to. The issue is dead and we are moving forward unified.
12-21-2011 | 08:11 AM
#7063
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
So, try this one on for size if we are going to discuss hypotheticals.
2 years from today we finally have a TA. It has:
* 10 % year one.
* 3 % for each remaining year for a 5 year deal.
* 5hr min day.
* 1% increase in dc. No Scope changes. Status quo there.
The MEC says: "This is the best we can get! If we don't take it we will get parked for an indefinite amount of time and we will never be allowed to strike. We have no leverage, We strongley recommend you all vote for this and and take the deal on the table."
They follow with, "if you vote this down the neg. comm. will quite and we will be looking at years before we can move on anything again."
Are people irrate or do they hang there head and after a full does of spin and sell and vote for it?
Or, do they re-new cards and send new ones in in record volume?
2 years from today we finally have a TA. It has:
* 10 % year one.
* 3 % for each remaining year for a 5 year deal.
* 5hr min day.
* 1% increase in dc. No Scope changes. Status quo there.
The MEC says: "This is the best we can get! If we don't take it we will get parked for an indefinite amount of time and we will never be allowed to strike. We have no leverage, We strongley recommend you all vote for this and and take the deal on the table."
They follow with, "if you vote this down the neg. comm. will quite and we will be looking at years before we can move on anything again."
Are people irrate or do they hang there head and after a full does of spin and sell and vote for it?
Or, do they re-new cards and send new ones in in record volume?
The real question you need to ask yourself is whether you really think DPA would get any better results. It matters not (to an extent) what the NC brings to us as a TA. The real issue is how/why are you so convinced that DPA would do any better.
12-21-2011 | 08:13 AM
#7064
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat 744
Please stop trying to inflame everyone. Really bad scare tactic that wont work.
12-21-2011 | 08:25 AM
#7065
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Edit. Interesting that you brought a N v S thing into it. I never said anything about a "fNWA" guy challenging the SLI... All I said was that I want the head of the organization to put his name on a piece of paper telling me that this will not occur. Is that really so hard? And from what all I have seen on this thread for the most part is pro DPA guys flinging flames with amazing regularity.
12-21-2011 | 08:29 AM
#7066
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Dude... seriously? We could what if this kind of nonsense all day long, and get right back where we started.
The real question you need to ask yourself is whether you really think DPA would get any better results. It matters not (to an extent) what the NC brings to us as a TA. The real issue is how/why are you so convinced that DPA would do any better.
The real question you need to ask yourself is whether you really think DPA would get any better results. It matters not (to an extent) what the NC brings to us as a TA. The real issue is how/why are you so convinced that DPA would do any better.
Professional negotiators. (#1 in US News poll for Employment Law- Management & Litigation-Labor and Employment.)
U.S. News - Best Lawyers - Davis Wright Tremaine LLP
Wall street investment banking EFA. (i.e. JPM Chase)
This will never happen with DALPA at the helm. To much political power and money at stake. The MEC Commitee structure fears this.
Last edited by TheManager; 12-21-2011 at 08:58 AM.
12-21-2011 | 08:37 AM
#7067
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Not necessarily DPA, buit anyone that would consider alternatives to what we have been using for decades.... and not so effectively over the past decade or so.
Professional negotiators. (#1 in US News poll for Employment Law- Management & Litigation-Labor and Employment.)
U.S. News - Best Lawyers - Davis Wright Tremaine LLP
Wall street investment banking EFA. (i.e. JPM Chase)
This will never happen with DALPA at the helm. To much political power and money at stake. The MEC Commitee structure fears this.
Professional negotiators. (#1 in US News poll for Employment Law- Management & Litigation-Labor and Employment.)
U.S. News - Best Lawyers - Davis Wright Tremaine LLP
Wall street investment banking EFA. (i.e. JPM Chase)
This will never happen with DALPA at the helm. To much political power and money at stake. The MEC Commitee structure fears this.
12-21-2011 | 08:49 AM
#7068
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
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You will get absolutely ZERO argument regarding the competency of the ALPA lawyers. I have not been impressed for years with the vagueness of the language that has been drafted by them. That being said.. Seehan? Really? I am not up on the top labor lawyers in the country, and I will read about the firm you suggest... but I know enough to know that the firm that DPA had originally contracted were worthless.. and I know what their MO and ideals were... THAT does not fill me with impression wrt DPA.
OTOH, ALPA not looking at other options that have really no downside has me thinking the same about their strategic planning and thinking.
Once one understands who the power brokers are in DALPA, how they influence reps, and most importantly, how they are paid and by whom, it's clear why they fear this idea. Case in point, look how they fear the FPL resolution and all the work that has gone into fighting it.
Last edited by TheManager; 12-21-2011 at 09:24 AM.
12-21-2011 | 09:15 AM
#7069
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Hiring Seeham was the worst thing DPA could have done. That move really has me questioning TC's strategic planning and thinking. Quite frankly, it may have been an unintentional fatalyl self inflicted wound. Not immediate death but more like a long slow infection that kills.
OTOH, ALPA not looking at other options that have really no downside has me thinking the same about their strategic planning and thinking.
Once one understands who the power brokers are in DALPA, how they influence reps, and most importantly, how they are paid and by whom, it's clear why they fear this idea. Case in point, look how they fear the FPL resolution and all the work that has gone into fighting it.
OTOH, ALPA not looking at other options that have really no downside has me thinking the same about their strategic planning and thinking.
Once one understands who the power brokers are in DALPA, how they influence reps, and most importantly, how they are paid and by whom, it's clear why they fear this idea. Case in point, look how they fear the FPL resolution and all the work that has gone into fighting it.
12-21-2011 | 01:06 PM
#7070
Banned
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
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DELTA MASTER EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
November 13 - 19, 2011
Atlanta, GA
November 13 - 19, 2011
Atlanta, GA
MAKER: xxxxxxx SECOND: xxxxx
MOTION # VOTE: Passed
WHEREAS in the interest of transparency, the Delta MEC wishes to keep the pilot group informed of the hours paid to Delta MEC fulltime volunteers, main committee members and LEC representatives.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED the DAL MEC directs the DAL MEC Treasurer to post a complete annual summary of pay hours, known as the MEC Compensation Report, on the Delta MEC website no later than March 31 of the following year.
DELEGATE COMMITTEE VOTE: UNANIMOUS
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