My concern is that we are paying for ALPA's lawyers. ALPA's lawyers do not have Delta pilots' interests anywhere close to the top of their priority list. I think we're a few items below "colonoscopy" on their agenda.

ALPA's lawyers are taking orders from and working for the bloated fat cats at national and the MEC who have a vested interest in protecting and padding their own cushy situations. They are NOT acting on Delta pilots' behalf.

It's like paying for your wife's boyfriend's divorce attorney. It doesn't make sense.

 

Total garbage. Even if self preservation was their only motivator, their interests align with ours; a successful decision in the TWA case.

 

Wrong. The Delta pilot group does not require ALPA's survival as a solvent organization to continue to exist and thrive. So I'm paying for something I don't need. Kind of like when the car dealer sells me "undercarriage protectant."

ALPA, however, most certainly needs Delta pilots to survive.

We're paying through the nose for those lawyers, who are racking up massive billable hours. What does that money bring us either way?

Assuming ALPA "wins," (which we can all agree is a stretch at this point) we're still stuck sending dues money to pamper the useless bureaucrats at national and support DCI pilot groups who want to take my job.

When ALPA loses, we get stuck with the tab in the form of a massive assessment--along with dues money to pamper the useless bureaucrats at national and support DCI pilot groups who want to take my job.

It's a lose-lose for Delta pilots and a win-win for the national fat cats (and DCI pilot groups who want to take my job).

I'm curious to see the proportional dollar amount for ALPA's DFR legal bill that Delta pilots' dues have paid thus far, bearing in mind there are still thousands of billable hours left to run. A number. ACL65, you seem to be plugged in--in the interest of transparency, can you please get us that info? Thank you

 

Just fogging up the windows, but what we gain from being part of ALPA goes far beyond this single lawsuit. We have been though that in the last few thousand posts, so I will spare my key strokes and your migraine.

I had a strong DPA supporter on our JS last week. Suffice to say a lot of the facts he had were wrong. From where our 30 million goes, to what a different law firm would cost, to what the true risks are for this group.

Much like the AMR CH11 filing happening in different times, the same could be said of starting an independent union in this era. Simply put, we would get eaten for lunch. Sadly, I honestly believe that there are a good number of DAL pilots that are willing to take that huge risk, and only will see the reasoning that guys like me have been using once our six has been handed to us. By then it will all be water over the damn and all of the issues we have been talking about will not be able to be undone.

 

Come on, you are above such scare tactics! I don't believe it. I believe we could attain better representation and advocacy than we have now at every level, at a fraction of the cost, with money left over.

I don't buy the assertion that ALPA is somehow necessary to successfully bargain with the company. 12,000 pilots rowing in the same direction, and not distracted by national's buffoonery, is a far more powerful negotiating voice.

Wouldn't you agree that having our dues money redistributed to national bureaucrats and DCI pilot groups is an utter abomination? Surely you can admit that some amount of our dues money is woefully misappropriated and works against our best interests.

How much have Delta pilots paid for the DFR lawsuit so far?
Transparency? Communication? not so much.

 

He may have a point. ALPA urged us to support the NYC slot swap and it turned out only to help management and the ALPA supported regionals, not Delta pilots.

 

ACL,

You really didn't address More Bacon's question, so I'll restate it.

Delta pilots are paying dues to ALPA national. ALPA national is paying attorneys lots of money to defend ALPA as a result of a lawsuit file by TWA pilots, (which ALPA lost). Some of the Delta pilot's dues money is being spent on those attorneys, both at the original trial and now appeal.

How specifically does that benefit Delta pilots?

If we had a union that represented Delta pilots (and only Delta pilots (like SWAPA)) would we have those expenses?

I've tried to frame the question fairly, and would appreciate a sincere response...

 

See, the thing is I am not trying to "scare" you. I just see what is coming down the pike, and going through a change in representation is a golden time for the most powerful airline CEO to pull it off. A change of power is always a great time. There will be a huge learning curve for DPA or any new group for that fact and that take time and a lot of money.

I researched where our dues money was going a few years back and frankly, I do not think we could do it for cheaper. We use 10 million to operate the MEC, of the other 20 million, the LEC budgets, all of the lawyers, support staff, MEC offices, LEC offices, schools, etc come out of that 20 million. Given the amount of time our lawyers, the ALPA lawyers and their teams spend on DALPA issues, I think you would be hard pressed to find a firm that would take this workload on and bill less than 10 million a year. These guys are working all of the time on many many cases on top of legally advising us on LOA's, TA's and other items needing legal opinions. Just getting a glimpse of what they work on, made me realize that we would need at least 30-40 lawyers working full time to get the services that ALPA legal provides. This does not include the work of EF&A, membership services, our Multimedia dept, real estate dept etc. All of that is taken care of by that 20 million that everyone seems to think goes to national and then pays for the RJ guys FPL.

Do we pay for some smaller carriers as part of the pooling? Sure, like Bearskin, but National is forcing all of the smaller MEC to live on their dues dollars. That is progress in action. They are allowing MEC's like ours to have the assets we want and need. Once again, ALPA is doing what ALPA does, morph.

There is a lot of misinformation out there on where this money goes. That does not stat that there is some inefficiency within ALPA. Of course there are issues that need to be solved. I have a laundry list of issues I want addressed, on the local and National level, and they are a top priority for me. What I do not want is to cause greater harm because some of these issues cannot be solved in a fifteen second sound bite. There is a difference. ALPA is far from perfect, but given where we are in the matriculation of the airline industry, I honestly believe it is extremely short sighted to just try something new. FDX did that and quickly came back. I consider them our peers and prefer to use their experience as a litmus test to what ours would be.

 

1) I do not have any specific info on that lawsuit, and I mean that. 2) It benefits us that National is dealing with it. If we were in independent the effects would be all on us, and a bad ruling mean that an independent would be finished, and so would your representation. ALPA will absorb it.

As for an assessment, that is highly speculative.

The benefit is that we are insulated. An independent would not be.

 

Exactly. ACL I value your opinion. I understand your theory; and perhaps in a class room environment you would receive an "A". However many of us have come to the conclusion that Delta Pilots are paying for someone elses lunch. Having served many years ago at the National level...I can promise you we are. Simply put, those resources might best be kept at home and not given to others who couldn't care less whether you get paid this week. Nobody looks at the cost when some one else is "pickin up the tab"! Cheers...