Originally Posted by Sink r8

Lots of 11 post wonders crawling out of the woodwork, with a lot of friendly advice, lately. Strangely, it's all the same: people that mailed their card "weeks ago" (before DPA's "coming out" website) want to help us with our decision making. All we have to do is feel the rage at Prater, and let it guide us towards decertification at the local level. Feel the dark side of the force...

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas,

I'm going to agree with Pops here, and it will be my last comment on the DPA stuff.

I agree with the premise. I think that ALPA is bloated and embroiled with TOO much bureaucratic inertia to change. There is too much money in it , and the people in power have been paying it for so long, there's just no changing. You got law firms, you got financial people, all the myriad number of people feeding at the trough not willing to give it up.

It's kind of like an airline. Everyone makes money...the fuel people, the aircraft leasors, the airports, the outsourced labor providers, heck, even the cleaning company...everyone BUT the airline (and by extension, the employees)...of course, the way it's set up, it's NOT supposed to make money...just a trough for others to feed at.

Money makes people do funny things.

I mean really, the Westin Diplomat? With free booze? I'll go so far as say fine with the free lunch buffet (people gotta eat), but a swank place like that, with open bar and you got kids making $20k a year on the line, not to mention the GIGANTIC pay and benefits everyone has taken in the last 10 years. That takes a lot of brass to pull off. You could run the same shin-dig out at the FLL Raddison for 1/100 of the cost.

THIS kind of thing won't change. The Delta pilots deserve better. We have the mass and the cash flow to make it happen. All of the services we get from ALPA now we can rent without the ridiculous overhead that goes with it. We can group up with UPS, AMR, SWAPA and probably the others that jettison out after we do to form up a lobbying group that represents OUR interests, without any fear of the constant barrage of lawsuits that has paralyzed the current leadership.

With the above said, ALPA KNOWS how to protect the cash flow. Their communication people are RELENTLESS, and to not think that they aren't populating this very forum (among others) is naive. They know how to hammer a message, and make it stick.

That's why the DPA probably won't make it. You can't overcome the machine unless you bring your own A game to the party.

You need to be in people's faces ALL THE TIME to counter the relentless drumbeat. Not just email, but phone trees, and FACE TO FACE communications. That means a network of dedicated people hitting the airports and the crewrooms. A website will NOT cut the mustard.

And with our recently merged group, you need people from both sides that are trusted by the pilot group implicitly. Guys with unimpeachable records to lead the way. You can't have BS rules and lofty sounding mission statements. You need highly competent and respected people going out and getting the job done, not a bunch of single cause guys that start bickering about who gets the title of vice-assistant semi-grand poo bah as soon as things start going their way.

We don't have a "Nic award" to galvanize the pilot group as it did the USAir pilots. We need to organize for our own reasons, and I don't see anything that will move this group off the status quo. I see a half-a$$ed attempt as worse than nothing at all, because it poisons the well for the REAL change we need.

Nu

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

tsquare - this has NOTHING to do with the "ALPA national machine". DPA will fail for multiple reasons:

1) They preach transparency but refuse to be transparent. No one really knows who is pulling the strings.
2) Most Delta pilots are apathetic, and it will take an energized pilot group to change from the status quo.
3) Most that aren't apathetic are already volunteering either full or part time with ALPA, and in spite of its warts, see it as the best chance to restore the profession, and also the best chance to reform ALPA.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Care to give an example? And please don't point to SWA or UPS, as the union had nothing to do with relative values of those contracts. They have both been extremely profitable over the years, yet their pay has always lagged the industry.... until everyone that mattered went bankrupt.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

...and of course you forget USAPA. Since they threw ALPA out things have been absolutely rosy around there. Multiple lawsuits, injunctions, massive legal bills, no contract advancement. Please let's be like them.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yes...yes...that's all it will take to ruin us! We'll be just like USAPA if we get rid of ALPA. That's the only thing keeping us from being USAPA!!!!

Keep it coming ALPA boys.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I disagree with you Nu. They have a powerful machine, but I have no intention of letting the entrenched ALPA apologists on this forum or anywhere else get away with name calling and baseless scare tactic.

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Awesome! If seen the classic Carl stuff before, and it never fails to impress by the volume and quantity. Never mind that it lacks any sort of lucidity. It's the adult equivalent of throwing yourself on the floor and throwing a tantrum when faced with something you don't want to hear.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

What garbage.

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Awesome! If seen the classic Carl stuff before, and it never fails to impress by the volume and quantity. Never mind that it lacks any sort of lucidity. It's the adult equivalent of throwing yourself on the floor and throwing a tantrum when faced with something you don't want to hear.