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Old 11-13-2013 | 06:49 PM
  #8271  
80ktsClamp's Avatar
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From: Poodle Whisperer
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Yes, without question. Because we would have done it the right way.

If you really think that the NMB will never allow strikes anymore, then understand that you can only expect what management is already willing to give you. Just like the other non-union employees at Delta. Your union membership would be one in name only.



Apples and oranges given Pinnacle's disastrous finances. That is not the case at Delta.

Carl
Pinnacle was consistently making profits over that timeframe.

I don't believe your expectations are seated in reality for us being allowed to strike.
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Old 11-13-2013 | 06:51 PM
  #8272  
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
Am I correct that SWAPA's last TA included some rather small payrate increases?
Yes. It also included all SWA branded passengers can only be flown by SWA pilots.

Originally Posted by Sink r8
If they're really something special, you'd think they wouldn't let their differential to the rest of the industry decrease.
See above.

Originally Posted by Sink r8
Or could it simply be that they've been lucky enough to work for a profitable airline, especially WRT fuel hedges?
Whatever excuses you need to get yourself through the day dude.

Carl
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Old 11-13-2013 | 06:54 PM
  #8273  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I don't believe your expectations are seated in reality for us being allowed to strike.
Then you really need to stop wasting your time stating what you'd like to have in your career at Delta. You are essentially working for a non-union shop. It's just that simple. You'll get what management is already willing to give and nothing more.

Carl
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Old 11-13-2013 | 06:56 PM
  #8274  
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From: Poodle Whisperer
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
Am I correct that SWAPA's last TA included some rather small payrate increases? If they're really something special, you'd think they wouldn't let their differential to the rest of the industry decrease.

Or could it simply be that they've been lucky enough to work for a profitable airline, especially WRT fuel hedges?
As to the latter, being part of a consistently profitable airline is consistently a key part of the equation, but it is hardly a simple nor consistent equation.
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Old 11-13-2013 | 07:05 PM
  #8275  
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From: Poodle Whisperer
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Then you really need to stop wasting your time stating what you'd like to have in your career at Delta. You are essentially working for a non-union shop. It's just that simple. You'll get what management is already willing to give and nothing more.

Carl
I whole heartedly disagree with your conclusion here. I would love to be able to strike and have that option to dangle in front of management. At this point in time, you are not seated in reality if you believe it is a valid expectation. Perhaps that will change, but right now that is not the case.

Additionally, your conclusion that since a strike is off the table that we might as well be non-union is illogical. You know as well as I do that there is plenty of pressure that can be applied. Particularly at DL, we do a lot of stuff that is above and beyond and they prize a satisfied work force. The union is a valuable asset and will always return more than a non-union shop, but more cards are available to mgmt anyways regardless of being able to strike or not. Returns are diminished without the option of a strike, but that is the current reality we are in by working for jumboworld airlines.
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Old 11-13-2013 | 07:15 PM
  #8276  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I whole heartedly disagree with your conclusion here. I would love to be able to strike and have that option to dangle in front of management. At this point in time, you are not seated in reality if you believe it is a valid expectation. Perhaps that will change, but right now that is not the case.
I know that's what everyone in ALPA consistently states, but it is not true. The NMB has never said or even inferred the things that you believe to be fact. ALPA has done an amazing job of using the NMB as the reason for their poor performance.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Additionally, your conclusion that since a strike is off the table that we might as well be non-union is illogical. You know as well as I do that there is plenty of pressure that can be applied.
Completely incorrect. Any pressure applied outside of the RLA process is illegal. Any pressure attempted within the RLA process but without the credible threat of a strike is no pressure at all.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Particularly at DL, we do a lot of stuff that is above and beyond and they prize a satisfied work force. The union is a valuable asset and will always return more than a non-union shop, but more cards are available to mgmt anyways regardless of being able to strike or not. Returns are diminished without the option of a strike, but that is the current reality we are in by working for jumboworld airlines.
In my opinion, that simply ignores reality. You might like to believe this is true, but it is not.

Carl
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Old 11-13-2013 | 07:22 PM
  #8277  
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From: Poodle Whisperer
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Welp, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Carl. All of the conclusions and assertions are the opposite of my perception of the same set of circumstances and occurrences we are referring to- thus we aren't going to get anywhere. Too bad!
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Old 11-13-2013 | 07:24 PM
  #8278  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Welp, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Carl. Too bad!
That's cool.

Carl
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Old 11-13-2013 | 07:44 PM
  #8279  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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So is it true the DPA tried to enhance its own website, actually broke it, and then blamed ALPA before it figured out it redirected itself?

Surely the DPA has a change log. What does that log state?

Don't feel bad. Last month Microsoft filed copyright take down notices with Google over stuff Microsoft itself had published.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-13-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-14-2013 | 03:13 AM
  #8280  
Line Holder
 
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Ahh! Just think if there was an alternative that didn't keep blowing its toes off. We would most likely have already had a vote. TC just can't help himself to help Alpa.
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