Virgin America work rules, benefits, etc...
01-11-2011 | 05:52 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: MD80
So let me get this straight...
You guys blame ALPA for:
1. Age 65. You think that somehow ALPA was going to stop the ICAO steamroller that was heading America's way?
2. Your old contract was gutted when your company used the OLD bankrupcy laws to abrogate it. And yet, you give no credit to ALPA for aggressive lobbying to CHANGE those old bankruptcy laws so it can never happen again.
3. You were furloughed by your COMPANY. ALPA was at fault. Not oil prices, not 9-11, not poor management...ALPA.
And because of that you fly an A320 for less than regional turboprop wages to get back at ALPA.
God, I hope your wearing goggles while you've got your head stuck in that sandbank.
You guys blame ALPA for:
1. Age 65. You think that somehow ALPA was going to stop the ICAO steamroller that was heading America's way?
2. Your old contract was gutted when your company used the OLD bankrupcy laws to abrogate it. And yet, you give no credit to ALPA for aggressive lobbying to CHANGE those old bankruptcy laws so it can never happen again.
3. You were furloughed by your COMPANY. ALPA was at fault. Not oil prices, not 9-11, not poor management...ALPA.
And because of that you fly an A320 for less than regional turboprop wages to get back at ALPA.
God, I hope your wearing goggles while you've got your head stuck in that sandbank.
A few things, and I'm not even UAL.
1. ALPA should have had the BALLS to say "folks, we can't stop it and it's going to happen." Instead, they wanted to spin it so that it appeared they were victorious and that it was desired by the membership.
2. Where was ALPA when previous airlines were having their contracts gutted through the BK process?
01-11-2011 | 07:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
In 2001, when I was at Piedmont (dch-8) they never made mesa stand up for a decent rj contract. So they allowed the fight to the bottom to begin on the rj front. the rj's were awarded to them instead of a wholly owned airline where the wages and benefits would have been tons better. I never got off reserve in over two years and got displaced 5 times in 13 months.
In 2004 when United went bankrupt I was at Air Wisconsin Airlines. Where was alpa national to fight the Startup Gojet and the nonunion carrier Skywest from undercutting our work and bypassing the transstates contract. I was displaced and we lost our industry leading contract.
In 2008 where were my alpa brothers at Delta and Northwest when they bought Midwest Airlines. It took Delta and republic just over 3 months to destroy us with no word or action from any branch of alpa (natioanal, DAPLA, NWALPA). Everyone at the company lost their jobs.
Now I'm at Virgin. I am loving my life, and have never been treated better. If ALPA ever shows it's face around here you have one guaranteed NO vote right here. Alpa is a farce of an organization. They don't stand for anything unless your are a top ten percenter at a legacy. There is no national voice, now common action. Just a bunch of selfish *******s trying to screw everybody else so they can keep whats "rightfully theirs". I am done hoeing the high road for a group of people that don't give one crap about me or my family. They have not done one thing that has benefited me in my whole ten years of dues.
You want insurance? Buy Aflac! Its cheaper!
Rant over...
-4
In 2004 when United went bankrupt I was at Air Wisconsin Airlines. Where was alpa national to fight the Startup Gojet and the nonunion carrier Skywest from undercutting our work and bypassing the transstates contract. I was displaced and we lost our industry leading contract.
In 2008 where were my alpa brothers at Delta and Northwest when they bought Midwest Airlines. It took Delta and republic just over 3 months to destroy us with no word or action from any branch of alpa (natioanal, DAPLA, NWALPA). Everyone at the company lost their jobs.
Now I'm at Virgin. I am loving my life, and have never been treated better. If ALPA ever shows it's face around here you have one guaranteed NO vote right here. Alpa is a farce of an organization. They don't stand for anything unless your are a top ten percenter at a legacy. There is no national voice, now common action. Just a bunch of selfish *******s trying to screw everybody else so they can keep whats "rightfully theirs". I am done hoeing the high road for a group of people that don't give one crap about me or my family. They have not done one thing that has benefited me in my whole ten years of dues.
You want insurance? Buy Aflac! Its cheaper!
Rant over...
-4
ALPA's plethora of highly paid staff need your dues dollars. Yes they provide some valuable services, I especially like the Aeromedical division as I know its been invaluable to some of my friends. That being said many of us still feel the sting from what I might describe as being/feeling as if we were shortchanged by ALPA. With all the attorneys on staff it still blows my mind that the majority of the language and negotiating is left to the individuals(pilots) from the locals. Most of which aren't attorneys and may never have negotiated a CBA before. So when I (and 400 others) lose our jobs, not because the company is no longer solvent, but because SECTION I-scope (why do you suppose its the first section?) is not worthy of being used as toilet paper, well then lets just say I have a problem with the representation these highly compensated individuals are providing me.
Then to add insult to injury we get to observe our "unionized brothers" (teamsters/fapa to be exact) waltz in and replace us one by one. That's got to be enough to make any labor leader roll over in their grave. Unionism in the piloting profession is a joke!
Yes we benefited from having a CBA, but in the end the most basic of reasons for having a union, job protection, was abrogated in this case. Certain posters can/will continue to waste their energy attempting to shame us for our non-union status. For most of us, this aint our first time at the rodeo. Some of us have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly side.
01-11-2011 | 08:17 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: Skeptical
There are captains at QX making more per hour on the Q400 than VX captains flying an Airbus.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rizon_air.html
Not to mention the RJ guys at many regionals with higher rates.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rizon_air.html
Not to mention the RJ guys at many regionals with higher rates.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 01-12-2011 at 12:28 AM. Reason: TOS edit.
01-11-2011 | 11:57 PM
#24
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 0
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Horizon CRJ Captain earns $121 an hour.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 01-12-2011 at 12:28 AM. Reason: TOS edit.
01-12-2011 | 04:36 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Horizon CRJ Captain earns $121 an hour.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
What does an 18th year RJ CA make in the Dash when the CRJs are pulled? APC still says all CRJs gone by end of 2012. Is this still true?
I was a D8-300 CA in 1992 with Air Willie. The rate then was 75/hr. None of us have kept up with inflation and we are all underpaid. While I loved the Dash and thought the CRJ was fun, I would still rather be doing transcons here than multi leg days there.
And your Horizon guys all get flow through, right? When Air Willie was Air Willie, before the UAX crap, one started as a first year prop FO and ended up as a 20 year plus jet CA. One list, one certificate, a great contract and everyone was one family. Those were the good old days.
Suggestion fish breath: Find some peace in your life. I feel sorry you are so negative about your work life you have to lash out at others. Try volunteer work, Habitat for Humanity always needs nail holders.
01-12-2011 | 09:08 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Horizon CRJ Captain earns $121 an hour.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
Today (1/12/11) the highest paid Virgin American A320 Captain earns $110 an hour.
It will be 3 more years before the #1 Virgin Captain makes more than a Horizon CRJ Captain.
Thanks for undercutting every narrowbody major airline Captain in the United States.
We have not undercut every major airline Captain in the United States.
Fish compares 14 year pay at Horizon to our 2 year captain pay and thinks that is a good comparison. I hope you are as hard on the USAir guys as you are on us.
We have nowhere to go but up and it will happen soon.
We have guys from jetBlue, USAir, Alaska, Southwest, America West, United, ABX Air, and all of the regionals including Horizon on our seniority list. All have seen the union side of things and all agree what we have is better as long as it improves along with our company's health. Our work rules are not the best, our pay needs to come up, but we're building the company. It will improve.
01-12-2011 | 11:11 AM
#27
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 0
The companies abrogated their union contracts and imposed jetBlue narrow body wages.
Know your history.
01-12-2011 | 11:43 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Like he said, we know ours needs to come up. Pay attention. You said USAir used the JetBlue pay scale. That may be. I don't know my history. However, the scales came up quite a bit at Blue. Its was just a matter of time. Ours will too. All in due time.
01-12-2011 | 02:30 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
And the USAir/UAL rates are so crappy because guys like you elected to fly for a non-Union carrier undercutting the wages in place at the time their companies declared bankruptcy.
The companies abrogated their union contracts and imposed jetBlue narrow body wages.
Know your history.
The companies abrogated their union contracts and imposed jetBlue narrow body wages.
Know your history.
Virgin America did not exist during the multiple bankruptcies of the early 2000s, and very large percentage of the pilots at Virgin came on board after being furloughed, some multiple times, from legacy carriers. To then turn around and blame them for low pay at the airlines that put them on the street is another slap in the face from their ALPA 'brothers'.
There are thousands of out of work American, United and USAirways pilots who would love to be flying at mainline for the bankruptcy imposed rates, but can't because ALPA spent much the time leading up to the bankruptcies giving up scope. ALPA outsources the junior jobs to poverty level paying regionals, and then has the nerve to blast the furloughed guys for taking the jobs that are available, as well as blasting the guys who are stuck at the poverty level wage jobs who try and make more money when mainline jobs are not available.
Had ALPA had the nerve to say no to outsourcing the RJs in the 1990's, you would not have the thousands of furloughed and low paid RJ guys looking for anything better. Apparently somebody forgot to tell you ALPA folks that creating a huge flood of unemployed, and underpaid pilots creates enormous downward pressure on salaries. And ALPA is directly responsible for the flood of furloughs and low pay by repeatedly caving on scope for over a decade.
That is the history you need to learn.
01-12-2011 | 05:00 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Not sure anymore
Had ALPA had the nerve to say no to outsourcing the RJs in the 1990's, you would not have the thousands of furloughed and low paid RJ guys looking for anything better. Apparently somebody forgot to tell you ALPA folks that creating a huge flood of unemployed, and underpaid pilots creates enormous downward pressure on salaries. And ALPA is directly responsible for the flood of furloughs and low pay by repeatedly caving on scope for over a decade.
That is the history you need to learn.
That is the history you need to learn.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FlyingA320
Major
195
09-19-2007 09:15 AM
