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Old 11-21-2010, 04:40 PM
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Default Virgin America work rules, benefits, etc...

Anyone care to comment on what VX has going on. I looked at the payscale, but I'm wondering about all of the other little details.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:22 AM
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Utah, it is a friendly place to work for. Crews are experienced, F/As are motivated. Regarding benefits, pretty much standard health coverage package, company matches our first 5% of 401k.

Let me know what else you would like to know.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:33 AM
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Since its non-Union and there's no pilot contract, work rules can change at the whim of the company.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:03 AM
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Since you asked about the "etc." you might want to consider the financial analysis done by Bloomberg that recently ran on the front page of the business section in the San Francisco Chronicle:

AVIATION

January 03, 2011|By Brad Stone, Bloomberg Businessweek

On a sunny, windswept December morning, Virgin America kicked off a day of festivities along the otherwise unfestive runways of Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

Four longhorn cattle lolled in a pen while dignitaries such as Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert lunched on pulled pork and ribs. The main attraction was the host, 60-year-old Sir Richard Branson, billionaire bon vivant and founder of the Virgin Group. While he was at the center of the celebration, he was also making an incursion into enemy territory.

American Airlines dominates air traffic at the airport. The 80-year-old airline and its affiliates send about 765 flights out of Dallas every day, making up more than 85 percent of traffic at the nation's fourth-busiest airport. Virgin America - with its 36 planes and 1,700 employees - was initiating just four daily flights, two each to Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Geek love and awards, though, can only get a young airline so far. The skies are a brutally competitive marketplace in which the legacy behemoths corner routes, dominate major airports and lock in customers with frequent-flier programs. Since deregulation of the airline industry in 1978, more than 100 small airline startups have come and gone. JetBlue is among the very few to have survived.

Makes first millions
In November, Virgin America announced its first quarterly profit, $7.5 million, on $202 million in revenues, but it lost $22.5 million over the first half of the year and has lost $400 million or more since its founding in 2004. David Cush, Virgin America's CEO and a former American Airlines executive, promises that the airline will turn a profit in 2011.

Virgin America's small profit seems less hopeful in light of the extremely positive environment for airlines. The entire domestic airline industry is in one of those hearty periods when it makes good money. The Bloomberg U.S. Airlines Index of 12 carriers climbed 22 percent in 2010.

"They've created a niche, but I don't think it's sustainable," says Mo Garfinkle, chief executive officer of GCW, an aviation consulting firm. "If something happens - and something always seems to happen in this industry, whether it's fuel prices or war or SARS - they're in trouble."

Virgin America does have at least part of one big asset: Branson. He is a renowned salesman with a special love of aviation. Over the past two decades, Branson has applied a focus on customer service and industrial design to an array of businesses. His Virgin Group has started companies, or licensed its brand to startups, in such fields as mobile phones, trains, hotels, soda, vodka, magazines, condoms and, most recently, space tourism.

Branson first tried to start a domestic U.S. airline in the 1990s and discussed teaming up with former Southwest Airlines executive David Neeleman. Branson was concerned, however, about a U.S. law restricting foreign ownership of domestic airlines, which would require him to turn over control of the Virgin brand to Neeleman. The Federal Aviation Act of 1938 limits foreigners to owning 49 percent of a domestic airline. Neeleman went on to start JetBlue, which went public in 2002.

Branson says he lost faith in the possibility that the law would be changed and by 2004 had decided to take a different approach. To finance the new effort, Branson hired the investment bank Lazard to canvass U.S. private-equity firms. Two firms with no prior history in the aviation industry finally pledged backing: Cyrus Capital Partners in New York and Black Canyon Capital in Los Angeles. Branson also poached charismatic Delta Air Lines President Fred Reid, who started his career as a reservations agent for Pan Am and was later an executive at Germany's Lufthansa.

With startup capital in hand, Virgin America ordered 16 Airbus jets and set about making them Virgin planes. There would be plush leather seats, a touch-screen entertainment system that offered dozens of on-demand movies and the ability to order snacks and meals from your seat at any time.

Airlines battle Virgin
the spring of 2006, with Virgin America applying for certification from the Transportation Department, Continental and American Airlines led a battle to block Branson from U.S. skies, questioning Virgin America's compliance with the foreign ownership law.

The ensuing regulatory fight, waged with lobbyists in Washington, Sacramento and San Francisco, lasted 18 months. Through it all, most of Virgin America's 16 planes sat unused.

To win its flying certificate, the Virgin Group had to make accommodations, including forfeiting the right to veto decisions about plane purchases. Fred Reid was forced to resign as CEO; the legacy carriers accused Branson's handpicked chief executive of being too close to foreign interests.

With David Cush newly installed as CEO, Virgin America's inaugural flight, from JFK to San Francisco, finally took off in August 2007. For the first nine months of 2008, Virgin America announced a $175.4 million loss on $259 million in revenue.

After such a tortured launch, both U.S. investors exercised the option to sell their stakes back to the airline. The company faced a simultaneous cash and regulatory crisis, because Branson's stake now exceeded 50 percent. In the ensuing refinancing, the Virgin Group lent Virgin America another $60 million, and Cyrus Capital agreed to step back in with a $20 million loan and assume the majority ownership position.

Expansion delayed
But the damage had been done: By the time the company got the Transportation Department to confirm the legality of its new ownership structure, Virgin America was far behind on its own plans for expansion. It initially predicted it would fly to 10 cities in its first year of service and 30 cities within five years. The airline didn't hit city No. 10 - Fort Lauderdale - until two years after it started flying. Dallas is just its 13th destination.

Mo Garfinkle and other analysts worry that the young airline has not grown fast enough to sustain a profit and has only $25 million in the bank. David Cush says the airline also has a $75 million line of credit, though he concedes that any airline exec will tell you more cash is a good thing. Don Carty, the chairman, says an initial public offering "is at least 18 months away."

Still, Virgin America has aggressive plans for expansion, with orders for 56 new jets over the next six years. It wants to introduce service next year to airports in Houston (where Continental is based), Atlanta (home of Delta) and Chicago (a major United hub). Virgin hopes its distinctive service is enough to lure travelers from those airlines.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:48 AM
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Mo Garfinkle is assuming a lot considering it is a private company. As long as the investors are happy who else cares? Unless Mo is on the board of directors how can he possibly know anything more than what is reported to the DOT?

We didn't grow fast enough! OMG! Never mind the fact we posted a profit with 28 planes in the third qtr using an infrastructure and business plan calling for 50 planes to reach break even.

Now that we are adding about one plane a month I am sure the great wizards of airline analysis will soon say we are 'growing way too fast to sustain profitability' or something similar.

Yes, the first two years were bloody, but we are still here, and in much better shape than the plan predicted. We also got called out on the 2nd qtr financials for having slightly underwater fuel hedging, but those same hedges are looking sweet now with a large portion of our fuel needs locked in below market.

Back to the OP's question:

Yes, we have work rules that are pretty standard in the industry. There have been positive changes such as upgrades keeping total longevity for pay, and there are some that need improvement such as full pay for deadheads, but overall the experience has been pretty positive. Ask any redwood guy how it is to deal with scheduling here versus their old carrier and you will hear few complaints. We fly planes with few writeups and stay in nice hotels of Hyatt/Westin quality.

True, the company can change the rules anytime they wish. They are also smart enough to understand the implications of doing so.

Last edited by Fred Flintstone; 01-08-2011 at 09:51 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Fred Flintstone View Post
True, the company can change the rules anytime they wish. They are also smart enough to understand the implications of doing so.
Implications? The only implications are they'll do whatever needed to ensure continued corporate survival. And what are you going to have to say about it...nothing. Your only option at that point will be to quit.

Unfortunately you'll have ingested so much red Kool-Aid you'll never do it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:35 AM
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The implications are that we may end up with a union. We know the pay here isn't on par with what we should be making, but we also understand that we're only in our third year of operation.

I don't think anyone here wants a union, but if they become consistently profitable and don't give back to the pilots, the pilots will do what it takes to get what we deserve.

In all my years on different forums, I've never seen someone so negative toward a company as you Fish.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
Implications? The only implications are they'll do whatever needed to ensure continued corporate survival. And what are you going to have to say about it...nothing. Your only option at that point will be to quit.

Unfortunately you'll have ingested so much red Kool-Aid you'll never do it.
All pilots interested in applying at VA :

Don't listen to Fish, I believe he is a frustrated Alaska Air pilot and has consistenly bashed VA.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:35 PM
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I guess nothing hurts like the truth.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
Implications? The only implications are they'll do whatever needed to ensure continued corporate survival. And what are you going to have to say about it...nothing. Your only option at that point will be to quit.

Unfortunately you'll have ingested so much red Kool-Aid you'll never do it.
True, but in that case it would be time to close the doors anyway. I stay away from the kool aide, fish. Try backing away from the rat poison sometime. That you fly for a very good airline with a poor labor relationship doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother you.
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