Picking up open time/ extra during furlough
12-04-2010 | 08:51 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
I swear I saw numbers from the UPS union, that was posted somewhere, that basically said that all of the open time that was being picked equated to 120 pilots or so back on property. Can anybody from UPS confirm this?
12-04-2010 | 08:59 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 3
From: The GF of FUPM
I've never had an issue with doing it. Picking up flying is part of the job. It's not your fault that the company hired too many people. Fly what you need to fly to make the job worth it to you. That is one of the advantages to being more senior, and like it or not, that is part of the industry.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
Yes, the 10 percenters will ***** themselves out and develop elaborate arguments for hosing the poor slobs on the street while sucking up all the overtime they can. I'm sick of hearing guys spout ......."Dude!, I just picked up a four day that pays 20 hours and now I'm right at 105 for the month!!" Never mind that he worked 22 days to do it and this behavior puts off recalls. Never mind that a 20 hour four day is a piece of CRAP.
Well F that! I will not pick up overtime or do ANYTHING to "help out" until all the furloughees are back AND we have the contract the we deserve. And in my mind, that is one hell of a contract. So, I may have 16 more years of dragging my feet. They can either invite me to pull on the rope, or they can have me not. The choice is up to them.
Last edited by oldmako; 12-04-2010 at 03:50 PM. Reason: clarity
12-04-2010 | 01:08 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 114
Likes: 17
I never pick up open time with guys on furlough. But for me that's more about solidarity with the pilot group than a belief that the company will be forced to recall pilots.
I've noticed that, even after all furloughs are back, there are more than a few guys who still have a residual, irrational opposition to overtime. They somehow think that picking up trips help the company to the detriment of the pilots. Its just too ingrained in their heads.
I've noticed that, even after all furloughs are back, there are more than a few guys who still have a residual, irrational opposition to overtime. They somehow think that picking up trips help the company to the detriment of the pilots. Its just too ingrained in their heads.
12-04-2010 | 01:42 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
From: 737n/FO
I never pick up open time with guys on furlough. But for me that's more about solidarity with the pilot group than a belief that the company will be forced to recall pilots.
I've noticed that, even after all furloughs are back, there are more than a few guys who still have a residual, irrational opposition to overtime. They somehow think that picking up trips help the company to the detriment of the pilots. Its just too ingrained in their heads.
I've noticed that, even after all furloughs are back, there are more than a few guys who still have a residual, irrational opposition to overtime. They somehow think that picking up trips help the company to the detriment of the pilots. Its just too ingrained in their heads.
"Let those who live in a glass house throw the first stone".
12-04-2010 | 02:19 PM
#25
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
Why don't you voluntarily swap with the furloughed pilot. Let your unemployment run out, figure out how your gonna pay the bills, while you watch your "swap" pick up a bunch of open time, pay cash for a new car and oh yea.........wait for it.......help your company grow?!
Then take a stress test, get on APC, respond to this thread and see if you feel the same. I am betting not. Any takers on that bet?
Then take a stress test, get on APC, respond to this thread and see if you feel the same. I am betting not. Any takers on that bet?
12-04-2010 | 02:27 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
I am 100% on the side of it is completely wrong to do so with guys on furlough. Didn't want to sway the opinions either way. Unfortunately, it appears our union disagrees.
Fractional staffing is not so much based on block hours so it's hard to measure what effect an extended day has. And we don't have line values so any and all extended days are at time and a half daily rate. Which for captians is probably in the ballpark of of $800-900, plus perdiem/tips etc.
there is also NO JUNIOR MANNING, RESERVES, etc.....It is 100% voluntary!
I've been a "professional pilot" for 10+ years. Mostly regional, some corporate and some fractional. Those that think it's ok most certainly have never been furloughed.....!!!!!
Thanks for the resposes, keep 'em coming.
Fractional staffing is not so much based on block hours so it's hard to measure what effect an extended day has. And we don't have line values so any and all extended days are at time and a half daily rate. Which for captians is probably in the ballpark of of $800-900, plus perdiem/tips etc.
there is also NO JUNIOR MANNING, RESERVES, etc.....It is 100% voluntary!
I've been a "professional pilot" for 10+ years. Mostly regional, some corporate and some fractional. Those that think it's ok most certainly have never been furloughed.....!!!!!
Thanks for the resposes, keep 'em coming.
12-04-2010 | 04:22 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Remember though, not all open time pickup is to pad one's paycheck while others are on furlough.. Some guys dropped a trip and need to get back to a "normal" line value for a month, somebody might have taken FMLA for some reason and are short on pay, etc. Don't go throwing the baby out with the bath water if you know of a perpetrator.
When the above situation has existed at my company, I've known guys that traded/dropped/advertised their line down to the lowest possible amount. Say he went from 80 hours to just one 20 hour trip. Now he knows the company is going to offer premium pick up rate due to over furlough and an increase summer schedule. So the guys picks up that exact SAME 60 hours. Only thing is, he's getting paid 90 hours to do, for a total monthly credit of 110 hours.
Sheer genius. Granted, takes a little bit of a gambling spirit.
Did he "help" the company out? Debatable, but I go with no, he just cost the company money. Did he screw over a furloughed guy? NO, for the reasons you listed.
Sadly though, at my company, the MEC was able to see the info, and it was simply cheaper to JM/reassign pilots than it was to call back furloughs and reupgrade CA's
Same here.
12-04-2010 | 05:50 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
I've never had an issue with doing it. Picking up flying is part of the job. It's not your fault that the company hired too many people. Fly what you need to fly to make the job worth it to you. That is one of the advantages to being more senior, and like it or not, that is part of the industry.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
Thankfully for the better good of the entire pilot group this attitude is disappearing faster then iahflyr's hairline...
12-04-2010 | 07:14 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
I was furloughed for quite a while and had no ill will towards people who picked up open time while I was on the street. You do what you have to do for yourself and your family......period. It's impossible to know all the variables behind the decisions people make. Get over it, get on with it, and mind your own damn business.
12-04-2010 | 08:38 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 845
Likes: 1
From: UPS Captain
To the original poster, I'd recommend asking this question anywhere other than an online forum. You will get a far different type of response. Some will have my view and some will have another view. The people who post on this forum tend to be very radically pro union and have some radical views on what is right and wrong. There is also a difference between what people say on here, and what they actually do.
I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for people to grasp.
Why do pro athletes go to the minor leagues where they barely make anything? And why do athletes spend 4 years playing in college where they make nothing? They suffer through the low pay because there is a chance they can move to the next level in their career and make significantly more money.
Why do doctors go to med school for many years, then put up with up with 80 hour work weeks during their residency? Because there is a good chance that they will be making very good money later on.
Why do airline pilots put up with 20k a year starting pay at a regional airline? Because they believe that one day they will be able to move on and make significantly more money.
If top pay for an airline captain was 90k a year, far fewer people would suffer through 20k a year at a regional. Less candidates mean the airlines would have to pay more.
That doesn't mean that pilots at FedEx and UPS should take a pay cut so that regional pilots will make more, it is simply an observation that is factual. The more money you are likely to make at the end of your career, the lower pay you are probably willing to take on to get into that career. It's true with athletes, it's true with doctors, it's true with pilots, it's true with every career.
I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for people to grasp.
Why do pro athletes go to the minor leagues where they barely make anything? And why do athletes spend 4 years playing in college where they make nothing? They suffer through the low pay because there is a chance they can move to the next level in their career and make significantly more money.
Why do doctors go to med school for many years, then put up with up with 80 hour work weeks during their residency? Because there is a good chance that they will be making very good money later on.
Why do airline pilots put up with 20k a year starting pay at a regional airline? Because they believe that one day they will be able to move on and make significantly more money.
If top pay for an airline captain was 90k a year, far fewer people would suffer through 20k a year at a regional. Less candidates mean the airlines would have to pay more.
That doesn't mean that pilots at FedEx and UPS should take a pay cut so that regional pilots will make more, it is simply an observation that is factual. The more money you are likely to make at the end of your career, the lower pay you are probably willing to take on to get into that career. It's true with athletes, it's true with doctors, it's true with pilots, it's true with every career.
Did Mike, from maintenance, get in touch with you? They were missing some tools and he thought you might have them.
Call him at once : 1-800-462-3422
JUP
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
